4 visions of religious institutions for spiritual seekers – Chaitanya Charan

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Right. Let me recap of what we discussed last time. This last time we discussed about how institution, in one sense or the other, has been a part of the history of our tradition. In the sense, we would call the parampara itself an institution. Sampradaya is an institution.

So if you consider any forum by which people can connect with Krishna as an institution, then a systematized organization by which it happens, then to some extent, an institution is unavoidable. But then we discuss also about how sometimes just because of the very nature of institution, some negativities do come up. How we can deal with those negativities? But today, I will talk about 4 visions with which somebody might approach, and I talk it from 2 different levels. If you consider a if you consider a mountain, so 4 and I was talking to 4 different things that’s like, you can look at it for 4 levels, and then we can look at it.

This is 4 levels and other could be. And if there’s a mountain, we can look at it. We can look at it from 4 perspectives. So 4 purse so 4 this is 4 levels. Levels indicate that there is a hierarchy.

That one is lower and one is higher, but these are perspectives. So perspectives are ways of looking. So, you know, if we want to if we want to, say, buy a car, we will look at it from the front. We will look at it from the back. We will go around it and look in all sides of it.

That is going around and having a a deeper perspective vision. A perspective can also include levels, but and they talk this is nonhierarchical. These are just 4 different ways of looking at things. So the class will be in 2 parts. 1st, we’ll talk about these 4 levels, and then we’ll talk about 4 perspectives.

Now, eventually, these it’s not that one level is related to one perspective. So we can have 4 levels into 4 perspectives, and we can go over to you can have 16 ways. And I’m saying this 4 you know, this 4 is let’s let’s look at you won’t go to all the 16 ways, but this gives you an under give some understanding of how things can be seen differently. And what I’m going to discuss is facial 4 11 in the Gita. That as people surrender to me, I reciprocate.

So it’s the principle of reciprocity. So in one sense, you have heard about reciprocal many times, but I’ll focus on one particular meaning of reciprocal. What we see is what we want to see. We put it back. What we want to see is what we are shown.

So vision is proportional to intention. Our vision is a function of intention. And b, there is a reality out there, and it is for us to change the reality to whatever way we can, but it is also for us to change our vision so that we can perceive a higher reality. So this is also based on 1515 in the Bhagavad Gita, where also Krishna says, I give knowledge, forgetfulness, and remembrance. So all this also, what does Krishna do this based on?

It is his reciprocating. If we want to strongly remember if we want we are serious about our Bhakti, then when some temptation comes in front of us, Krishna will give us knowledge and remembrance about the principles of Bhakti. Krishna will give us remembrance of Bhakti, and then he will give us a knowledge where we can increase our focus in on Krishna, and thereby, he will give us forgetfulness of that particular temptation. Conversely, if our intention is reciprocating with primarily our intention, if our desire is to enjoy sense objects, to enjoy materialistic pleasures, then what will Krishna do? Based on our desire, Krishna will give us that remembrance will become stronger.

And then we will he will give us forgetfulness of the resolutions that we have made, of the principles that we want to hold sacred. And then he will give us the knowledge how we can go about indulging. Maybe even indulging in a way that we get that doesn’t harm our image publicly. We can still have that facade of being a good devotee while doing other things. So, basically, the point is reciprocity is a very dynamic principle, and this applies to vision.

So the first part, four levels. So one of the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita to put it in the more scientific terminology is that reality is state specific or more specific or more precisely, our perception of reality is state specific to our particular state. And by state, we refer to the modes. So, basically, if we consider, you know, we could be in Thomas, Rajesh, Satwa, or should the Satwa. You know, I increasingly prefer the words Sattva, Rajas, Tamas, the Sanskrit words instead of the English words, because like every language, English also keeps changing.

And more for most people nowadays, the word passion has acquired a very positive connotation. They discover your passion in life. What is it that you want to do in life? The thing that you will feel passionate about, that’s what will be your purpose. So the word passion does not have the negative connotation that, we generally ascribe to it.

Although even that ascription is somewhat problematic because the mode of passion is not all bad. In fact, the mode of passion is vital for the sustenance of the material world in many ways in terms of all the challenges that face and adaptations have to be done for that. It’s because we may want to maintain, we do it in goodness, but the world is constantly changing. And to respond with changes, we cannot maintain by being in the same state. We have to keep being flexible.

Care. Creating this, trying that out. So in that sense, well, this is required. But, anyway, I prefer because there are some mistaken connotations that come up for today’s people, so I just prefer Thomas. Thomas is generally associated with lethargy or apathy.

Or at the very least, blindness to the bigger picture. So I now want to go into 3 modes right now in the specifics, so that’s a big topic in itself. So when somebody approaches a release institution in each of these at the level of pure goodness if somebody approaches, this is Krishna’s pastime. That actually, Krishna is performing pastimes through the Krishna consciousness movement. That is Prabhupada sometimes talks in this mood when he says that, it’s gone.

It’s also an incarnation of Krishna. And he also sometimes says that Maha Prabhu’s pastimes stopped 500 years ago. They’re continuing today. And we all we sometimes do hear extraordinary stories of serendipity or serendipity is an accidental good discovery. Nowadays, in the new age, this word is very common, synchronicity.

Synchronicity is, basically, 2 things happen at the same time. Somebody goes to a particular place, and they are looking for some opening, some job. And there’s just a few minutes before that or few hours before that, somebody has been left that job and the person or employee was looking for that job. So these are often seen as signals from the universe. And the universe is the word people use for those who don’t want to directly use the word god.

But the point is that we can see that there’s no there’s no miraculous things over here. So many people come here and, experience some higher reality. Somebody comes to Rindavan and beholds the deities and beholds the pilgrims. Somebody comes here to village and beholds the majestic raha, mother new temple land. There are so many places where the people have some life experiences.

So Krishna is alive and active, and he is alive and active not just in the world at large, but in the Krishna consciousness moment. So at this level, we see that Krishna is performing pastimes over here. And whatever is happening, there is, Krishna orchestrating it ultimately as a part of his. Now this is, to some extent, an Gupta Midhikari vision. And as we know, Gupta Midhikari, the topmost devotee, has to come down to the Madhima level to function in the world.

Level, if everything is Krishna’s villa, even those who are in Maya are also dancing in Krishna’s rasa villa. Although they’re dancing under Maya’s control. So there is there’s no need for it to preach or to correct anything. And this is not a vision at the the with which this is not a sustainable vision. If one actually wants to, function in the material world in a sustainable way.

So the has to come down to the level. So at the level, we see this as a place for purification, a place for higher cultivation. So the Propath, for example, says that in the prayers of Twin Kunti, that when people come to the temple, then the deep belief and the temple room should be recorded in such a way that situated mind has become peaceful. That’s interesting the emphasis profile is putting over here. Profile does not say it’s nice there.

This is not gonna make everyone peaceful. He’s I think the inquisitive of the child arranging the temple atmosphere in such a way that people can feel their peace. Yes. Krishna is there. No doubt.

But unless one has an evolved level of consciousness, one cannot perceive Krishna so easily. So place of purification means, you know, there is we try to create a calm environment. We try to create a ethically pleasing environment. We try to have, culture, what Prabhupad said, gentlemanly behavior. When he was asked, how do we know your followers?

He said that these are perfect, ladies and gentlemen. He didn’t emphasize that those are 10 16 round and ball of 4 egg. But that’s, of course, true, but the emphasis there was for speaking to outsiders. Outsiders don’t really care about our internal principles and practices. They’ll see what is important for them.

Are these people well behaved? So at this level, what happens is when we see this as a place where even if we don’t experience Krishna, oh, I feel peaceful over it. There are many people who are non theistic. I deliberately use the word non theistic, not atheistic. Because atheistic means they act they actively reject belief in God.

And non theistic means, God is not an important part of their life. Even such people when they go to a holy place, they see there are some mystical vibes over here. Something that is peaceful. They may not that peace in the presence of the deity necessarily to something, divine, but that experience is there. So in Satwa, we see the institution primarily as a place for purification.

And so we go there to do some service. I mean, when you do the service also, what we see is that okay. This is for Krishna’s pleasure. We will try to do the humble, grateful devotional disposition. Now, Rajesh, this becomes a place for achievement.

Now achievement, it is for Krishna ultimately. But in this, how much is the percentage of achievement? Is it achievement is 10 and for Krishna is 90% or achievement is 90% and for Krishna is 10%. That can vary. That means that we all built a grand temple.

So for Krishna. Now for Krishna, is that the central focus or is it we want to build? I want to build. So I want to distribute books. I want to get a thousand people to become remote.

So we may not have generally within the devoted society. We will not say I want to do it. We’ll say it’s why Krishna’s mercy and guru’s mercy. And maybe true, but our focus, the way we see it is that it is a arena. All of these are cities, arena for achievement.

Here we see it is a it is a venue for Krishna’s pastries. So achieve it. And then the upward competition, oh, these people have distributed many book to book more book. Prabhupal also, it will arrange this. To say, and we are in Rajogoda.

We cannot artificially adopt a Satwik with you. We cannot artificially adopt a shoot the Satwik with you also. That is why if we expect people in general to come here only for purification, Then the problem is how long are people going to stay? Okay. I come to the temple.

I sit for some time, take darshan. Most people don’t even say just take darshan and leave. You come. Tell them, come and sit and hear a class. Okay.

You can do it something. So I put this here more as also learning. We have scriptural teaching and learning. Now I won’t say that these activities are only learning and service are only in September. That is normally what we would think.

But we all want to do some things. It’s something okay. Come to the table every day and chance it before round every day. Don’t do that. Of course, I don’t have the time.

When you file the time, I don’t have the frame of mind for doing that. So we need tangible service. So when Prabhupada said, dammit it. No. Prabhupada actually very actively encouraged competition.

When he said that he would come and stay in the temple in America where the devotees will distribute the maximum books. So now the book has expected that the devotees would be doing this for Krishna, and more and more books would go out. Krishna’s message will get broadcasted. And the competition didn’t inspire a 2 realistic service. So here in the temple, as soon as Adnan Maharajas encouraged the devotees, inspired inspired the devotees to make an offering to his oldest Gopal Krishna Maharaj by distributing enormous quantity of books.

So and he said that, you know, distribute books. We should become number 1. Number 1 is very difficult. We mean temple. So yesterday, last weekend, Adi Shamru was here for the Sunday class, which Maharaj gave.

And Maharaj showed that he’s improved. He inspired the devotees so that they can become top in book distribution. And Maharaj elaborated and go back to put in inspire the devotees there to become top in book distribution. So there is competition, but the purpose of the competition is ultimately Krishna. So the achievement is for Krishna.

But now in this region okay. Yeah. You’re doing a sadhana. That is good. What should we do?

What do you actually achieve? Yeah. In many ways, the Prabhupad was not in Rajuva, but Prabhupad certainly not. But Prabhupad did encourage people to engage tangibly in Krishna’s service. So when the Vrindavan temple was reconstructed, it was very difficult at that time to get a proper cement.

No. Prabhupad was asking the boys, where are you? They were asking his contacts, live members. And finally, when cement came, Prabhupad came, the trucks were there and Prabhupad was personally watching the unloading of the cement bags. And Prabhupad told the devotee in charge.

Don’t let this be stolen. He said, count these cement bags the way you’ll count your the holy names while you’re enchanting. So it says the cement is being used for Krishna’s service. So now we could say this is a transitional region. It’s okay finding where you can buy cement, how you can get the cement.

It’s it’s something which the purpose is for Krishna. Wow. It’s competition. You know? How it’s got?

How can we bargain? How can we get at what cost properly? That’s one of the reasons why Prabhupad made his base in India. Any reasons. One and your reason was, of course, Prabhupad wanted the international movement to have a sustainable foundation in its in its homeland.

Another was that he found that whenever Indians keen on Indians, especially westerners, white skilled people, they think this the default assumption is people have a lot of money. And they get they try to cheat them. So Prabhupad didn’t want his disciples to be cheated. And he tried to train them, but he soon realized that because he had to be here to make sure that the financial dealings went properly. So Prabhupad had a business experience in the past, and Prabhupad made sure that the devotees were not taken for a ride because they didn’t know the Indian situation.

Now from the American perspective, everything in India was very cheap. Even when the devotees were being charged 10 times more than the normal price, they would think this is still 10 times cheaper than what is it in America. So the culture in America is quite different. Normally, it’s up front. You know, people don’t bargain over there.

So so much. No. They don’t bargain. But, anyway so sometimes to do tangible service here, we have to be we cannot be naive with this the whole place of purification. We may come here for purification, but others may not be coming here for purification.

And there’s somebody who’s building a temple, they might think, yeah, this is our business. So we need to have that Rajaguna also for serving Krishna. Now at the Thomas level, it becomes a place for destructive competition. Now, of course, it can also become a place for for I mean, see somebody in profile, so this is not just a place for eating and sleeping. We have to do.

We have to do. So that is there, of course, but that is not as big a danger for others. So this is more of an individual danger. If somebody becomes lethargic, somebody is say, now, again, this would be, I think, step more for those who are already living in the institution. But for those who are not necessarily living there and those who are living in the institution are relatively in a huge minority now.

Although they remain the face of the moment, but they are not at all the, anywhere near the majority of the moment. But for everyone else, even those who are not residing in the typically in the moment, it can become a place for destructive competition. Destructive competition means that can be the attempt for the hungers for power is there, and there’s domination. Now we may say I’m doing all this for Krishna, but the point will be for Krishna, it will become very minor, and it becomes I am going to do this. This is where one more one expression of Thomas is the ends justify the means.

Because I’m doing this for Krishna’s service, then whatever I do is okay. The ends justify the means. And so, you know, we are getting this land for Krishna’s sake. So even if we legally occupy the land, you know, the laws are favorable. When somebody from other religions do something, we become very angry, or they’re grabbing land.

But when we do something, oh, it’s for Krishna’s sake. So, you know, in this Krishna it’s for Krishna’s sake. So it can become the any justify that means can be used not only to manipulate and dominate as outsiders, but can also be used to dominate insiders. This is where things can become very cultish. And there have been phases and places in our moment’s history where things became quite cultic, where very, very narrow minded, very intolerant towards any questioning of authority, very demonizing anyone who questions authority and demonizing the outside world.

So that’s to create a huge fear of the outside world in people’s minds so that they don’t go out even if they’re visible inside because that fear has been created. So Prabhupada did talk about how in the 5th canto, Bhagavatam, there’s a description of the hellish planets, But he hardly used that in his preaching. He didn’t emphasize. He didn’t want people to take to Bhakti because or if you are if you are not practicing Bhakti, you will be in you know, and simply, and you will go to hell for that. Mahabharata’s focus was never that.

His was that if you you are a spiritual being and you are and for such so much better happiness than what is available to the senses. So why have you wasted your life making something so meager? Prabhupal also warned that search for personal power, that that will be the ruin for the moment. He also said that the moment will be destroyed from inside, not from outside. So that means that that those who are hungry for power and those who are competing for power, they can they can cause a huge destruction in the moment.

Now each now these are 4 levels means that we should be rising upwards. And Prabhupad, in the early 19 seventies itself, said that now it is time for us to churn the milk. So churn the milk means we want to rate the consciousness of devotees. So, generally, it is at here, that somewhere in Rajas and Thomas, people will be Kanishkas. So Kanishkas are very external in their focus.

So as long as they follow the ritual of going to the temple regularly, nothing else matters. And then how I deal with devotees doesn’t matter. And then I respect devotees. I even associate with devotees also. That doesn’t matter.

So prochurning the milkmaids, Prabhupada wanted us to rise to a higher consciousness and thereby make sure that the higher consciousness is present. So now when I have drawn this picture of a mountain over here, what that means is that the mountain has all these parts simultaneously. So like that, within Krishna’s movement, all these parts will also exist simultaneously. Now depending on two factors, depending on the disposition, Disposition primarily of the leaders and the disposition of the followers. So I would say this position, it doesn’t matter around 80, 90%.

But k. I mean, this is the approximate percentage, of course. See, let’s as approximately as it, the disposal of the leaders in money will matter 80%. That is where the followers would matter around 20%. But, eventually, followers are also going to become leaders.

So if the followers, for exam the leaders, for example, emphasize achievement very much. That’s the good books. No. That is required, but if they do not emphasize adequately, then we need to do it in proper consciousness. Our purpose is not just to sell a book.

It is to win our heart. So if we forget that, you know, we might manipulate and view people and sell a book. What may happen is that we may sell a book, but we may lose our soul. It is we wanna win a win a win a heart also. And among these, this is important, but this is much, much more important.

So during the interactions with people, it should be warm and cordial and polite by which they feel, I met a nice person. I wanna know more about what these people are doing. So if the leaders do not emphasize the tantric consciousness sufficiently, then the problem would be that even if the leader themselves are not Rajasik, the followers may go to Rajasik, and may even go to Tamoguna from there. And sometimes this happens with the in the gurus, my relatives, have good relationship. At least, working relationship.

But in the same place, when their disciples and each disciple, has the tendency for then there’s a power. There’s a there is a tendency for one upsmanship. One upsmanship means that I want to be superior to you. I want to buy Google’s the best. Buy Google’s the best, and therefore, by extension, I am the best.

Nobody will say that, but that is the mood. Then there can be tension between the various gurus. There can be tension between it’s not too much tension between the gurus, although that is also possible in rare situations. But mostly it is the disciples have a it’s like we can be zealous. Zealous means dedicated, having zeal.

That is good. But being zealous should not make us jealous. Zealous is dedicated. Jealous is destructive. It means that you should not no matter what happens, dedicated me, say, I want to serve my guru, and I want to serve my temple.

I wanna serve my leader. And through that, I want to glorify Krishna. I am jealous. That is well. But jealous would mean that I wanna make sure that you don’t succeed.

Because if you come here and you do better than me, that will be a disgrace and defeat for me. So that would be deadly. So we can have a discouragement and, impediment. So this so at the same structure means it could be through discouragement. There are negative remarks made, or there is impediment.

Impediment can be it’s going through criticism. Impediment can be through bureaucracy. Oh, you know, this is not your zone, and you’re not taking this permission, and you’re not done this, and you’re not done that. And now, of course, this is an all all bureaucracy doesn’t have to be bad. But it can happen where the point is making sure that that you don’t do better than me.

Not that we could see that we are all part of Krishna’s. There’s a lot we are like doctors under the pandemic. So many people who are sick. And the point is not who is treating how many patients. The point is how many people are being cured.

If somebody’s succeeding in treating more people, we should be happy. So that vision is very difficult to have in the job. That’s why it’s very important that, we have humility. And humility, it is the easiest way to cultivate humility is by cultivating respect. Respectfulness.

To feel, you know, I have no I have no I am small. I am insignificant. That’s quite difficult. But to cultivate respect is relatively easier. Oh, this person is also doing something worthwhile.

This person is also doing something valuable. In that way, it is possible to move forward. So what’s the next round of piece on each end? They will not make any sense somebody who’s in the. Alright.

Even if they don’t make sense, at least we aspire for that. And then that would keep us at least pointing towards the true norm. So it is the responsibility of leaders to try to raise the consciousness. And, of course, we cannot outsource the responsibility to leaders alone. We have to remember why am I here.

I didn’t come here for fame and glory, and we all would like to have some some others praising us and others appreciating us. But, you know, we came here for Krishna. That’s why the key principle here is. What am I here for? To the extent that that is clear for us.

Like I said, our vision is a function of our intention. So if we can remember our purpose is Krishna. Rohit Kumar did not start the International Society for Temple Construction. He did not start the International Society for distribution. He did not start the International Society for.

He did not start the International Society for. He did not start the international society for, say, when we get you kicked. All these could be a part, but it’s like the big umbrella is Krishna consciousness. You want to propose it, what it means the most is to develop love for Krishna. Under that, we can have many different umbrellas.

So we can have temples. We can have books. We can have group rules like that. But, you know, our umbrella say somebody’s umbrella is the where they education. And that is good.

But the name of the umbrella, we should not go out of the bigger umbrella. We should be able to find our space within that bigger umbrella. So this is four levels. Now what are the 4 perspectives or 4 ways of looking at things? This is wherein now it’s very easy to consider that, okay.

The people who we don’t like, they’re the. And the people who we like, say, oh, there’s a. In this world, Krishna says, every endeavor is covered by Paul. You know, 1846 to 48 is act among the most important verses for for functioning in the world in the Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says work in a mode of worship. So But then he also says that That every endeavor is covered by fault.

So everything will be faulty. We’ll have faults. So and this does not mean that we did that all. Everything has paused. So any level of calls can be tolerated.

But this four perspectives but this the first part which I talked was it’s if you think about it, it’s it’s it’s the philosophy concept of the 3 modes being applied in this context. But the second part, this is more of my observation and realization, and it has helped me to reconcile a lot of things. Each other travel abroad over the last 10 years. And I saw so many different varieties of Krishna consciousness. So it’s like I said, different people have different priorities.

Now so I’ll use the acronym post. Post refers to 4 different ways people may see the moment. Some people may see it as a home. Some people may see it as a office. Some people may see it as a school, and some people may see it as a training ground.

A training ground with a cultural a cultural or a visual training ground. That’s what I referred. So now these four visions, a, can all be had with a genuine service attitude. Somebody can have a very, very sweet, deep service attitude toward Krishna. So all these 4 visions can actually be all these 4 big visions or perspectives.

It’s not that one is the. Of course, we can have a deep service attitude. So for example, when there’s home, the focus is primarily on relationships. In the office, the focus is on tasks. It’s on getting the work done.

And how? Of course, at home also, there are many tasks to be done. If you’re not in a home at the play the home is a place where you can fit items. Mhmm. And office also, relationships are important.

After all, people grow through networking. But relatively speaking, you can say, in the form, the relationships are more important than the tasks. It’s not that if somebody is not going to do a task, then you are going to say that okay. Get out of it. In worst case, that may happen, but that is considered a catastrophe.

It’s certainly a serious problem. In the office, tasks are more important than relationships. So and, now what happens is that both of these, the very important ways of looking at things. And so here, when somebody’s focusing on relationship more than task, that is what defines a community builder. One who prioritizes project task or relationships, that person is a project builder.

Now, of course, you can see building a community is also a project, but I’m using the word project more in terms of, okay, building a temple, doing this, some some infrastructure. I’m using the word project for that particular purpose. And these 2 are significantly different profiles. So somebody who prioritizes relationships. The idea is that on somebody for whom, this is home.

And in home, you know, we might have in our extended family somebody who is, whose capacity is very best. Maybe they tend to be very sickly, or maybe they are physically impaired or maybe they’re they have some mental cognitive challenges, whatever. But should we take care of the family? We we absolutely take care of the family. We cannot abandon them.

But the office yeah. It’s nice to have relationship, but we have a job to be done. And the job doesn’t happen. Right? You have to leave.

You find somebody else who does the job. So in one sense, here, in the of of within of the office, people are somewhat dispensable. So people are replaceable. Not so many dispensable or as replaceable. So you you go, it’s not the end of the world.

I’ll find someone else to do what you are doing. So now, for example, like, if we have a situation where the authority has the priming primary vision of it this being an office. And the subordinate has the vision of this being a home. Then what will happen is, it is not that the authority is bad or the subordinate is bad. If the subordinate will think that the offer that the authority is so demanding.

It’s so insensitive. And the subordinate authority will think the subordinate is so lazy. It’s so complacent. You do it. But now the idea is that that now we all have our natures, and we cannot change our natures.

But acknowledging that our nature does not define the scope of the institution is very important. When I came from Pune to Mumbai because I had some services of editing and other things, I did came inside. So I was working on on that that’s book journey within. At that time, it was called the yoga of love. So I relocated to Mumbai.

So one of the leaders met me, and he told me right at the beginning, if you want to talk they said that if you want to get things done, come to me. If you wanna talk, go and talk with these these devotees. So he defined the quality. He said, don’t come and I don’t have time to talk with you. It’s a very interesting, way of putting things.

So I talked with him much, frequently afterwards. And I can see that, you know, he is a project builder, but he recognizes and respects community builders. From the project builder’s perspective, it’s very easy to devalue the community builder. What? So what is it that you achieved?

How many people have become reported? How many promised funds have you raised? What What project have you built? So in one sense here, relationships are somewhat intangibles. Of course, when relationship break, it’s a very tangible thing.

Tangible and it’s tragic. But overall, the say the time spent in building a relationship, in maintaining a relationship, it is actually tangible result. We are we cultivate a new person, and a new person becomes a devote. A new person may come for initiation, and then it’s a visible testament to our success. But then, somebody who’s a devotee, they’re already inside, and we spend time with them.

Okay. What happens? They’re inside already, and they’re already there. What is tangible is? If they’re inside and they leave.

Now this might view the conception that we should be treating this as a home and not as office, alone. But that is not true. If the home home can also actually be a place for. Home can also become a place for for while we said as for Harji, somebody just sits in the home and does nothing. In the west, there is this, many of the countries are welfare constraints.

That means if you don’t have a job, then the government will pay you every week or every fortnight or every month. So many people just do nothing? They just spend their time while playing video games, posting on social media, dreaming of becoming an influencer. Not having in even influence enough influence on their own bodies We will come out of their group. So the point is that just to say that the whole home is better the vision the home vision is better than the office vision and the oversimplification.

So we want also to do services. Then there are tangible things to do. There is a mission, and that mission means that the tasks are also important. So there could be very sincere devotees who have an office vision. And they will try to make relationships work, but if a relationship doesn’t work, Okay.

I have this much time for this, and after that, I have to go into other things. No. You can see that this person will leave Bhakti. He’s supposed to upset someone. Okay.

That’s all. That’s the only time I have. Such people will quote reality where, you know. Mahabharata says that for sake of one village, one person can be sacrificed. So not that one person who is sacrificed can feel very good.

I did so much, and I just go outside. But from their perspective, leaders perspective over we think I’m I’m looking for the larger good. So the point is, it’s not that thinking of it as a office is wrong and thinking of it as a home is right. Ideally, these 4 visions, the conclusion shall be towards is that we need to find like minded associate. So like minded means that if I’m coming here with the conception of this is my home, then I need to find devotees who also want to share that concern.

And then there’ll be good bonding. But if there’s a like minded association, it’s not that and there are people who will come here because they want to achieve things. They wanna do the things for Krishna. So the like minded sometimes it’s a conception of both the authority and the subordinate. Now authority and subordinate is not the only dynamic relationship that we can have.

We can also have the conception could be of peers with peers. There could appear 1 and peer 2. So 2 peers, if one peer is very much driven by the office mode. You never said the other peer here. What have you achieved?

You have been in Bhakti for so long. What have you been doing? What have you achieved? And the first peer can say, you know, you say you achieved so many things, but how many people have you burned out in Bhakti? Then you proudly parade how many people you brought to Krishna.

Have you ever counted how many people went away from Krishna because of you? So there can be coldness and animosity because of that also. So many times when I see I’ve traveled across the world, and I have talked with many leaders. And because I’m not a manager, you know, most leaders don’t see me as a competitor or threat. So they often open their hearts and talk with me.

So I didn’t understand that 2 people they’re so particularly critical of each other. Wow. Both of them have such devotion and dedication. So it took me some time. How could if you’re also devoted to Krishna, how could Krishna devote it to Krishna?

How could you be so grateful to a someone else? I talked with many senior devotees, and I reflected on it, I prayed to Krishna. And slowly, it struck me that it will get often speaking with a completely different conception. And because of that, it’s not it’s just that what the other person is doing just makes no sense to them. Now when the focus is on school Now, again, a home office school, you say, Prabhupad, for example, when the home conception talk about he talks about the the 6 loving exchanges.

And he says that in the in the Upanishamrut, He says that the Krishna consciousness moment is nourished by these fixed flow exchanges. So he’s talking there more towards the home conception. Now, Prabhupad is often now have mentioned in now is my home. My approach is my place of worship, and Bombay is my office. So ProBhavans also had now all these are the contextual conscious moment only.

So ProBhavans also had this idea of learning something from this perspective that this is the place I work, this is the place where I stay. But the idea of multiple conceptions of the institution is there. So now Prabhupad also was, at times, a taskmaster. And said, you know, impossible is a world is a full visionary. In 2 months, you publicly.

And that was so now is that office well, there’s so much emphasis on the task because that is a lot. It’s a deadline we have to meet it. Now, of course, you can see in the home also deadline is there. There’s a wedding, and everybody has to make that make sure that everything works at the time. So that deadlines can be at home also, but broadly, the focus on the tasks.

So Propa did give deadlines and some serious deadlines. So those we can say broadly associated with the with the vision of office. The school when I say school, the primary focus is it is a place for learning and then graduating out. Graduating out means what? When a person learns the values, and then they learn the values, learn the skills, and they go out in the world, and then they have their life.

So in the 1st generation, becoming a devotee meant moving into the moment. So, physically, for everyone, the moment was the institution was their home, physically. But slowly, things started changing. Now most people don’t live in the institution. In that sense, physically, it’s not their home, but still that’s the place where we meet meet people who are sharing our values, people whom who are part of our community.

And then so in that sense, it’s still a home. But school means, the idea is, I’ve learned these values, then I will decide how I apply them, how much I apply them. And so for example, somebody we we went to a particular school. Now somebody’s over study engineering, and we may go into software after that. We may go into business finance after that.

What we learn in engineering, we carry some of it. So here, in one sense, when the focus is on learning, many times the boundaries become flexible. So the person sees, this is a place where I go to learn certain things, but it’s my life. There’s a lot of emphasis on autonomy. So I know many devotees, even probably Probuphine disciples.

They are formally devoted to Probuphine, but they say we are IScon alumni. That we we that was an important part of our life, but they identify themselves more as IScon alumni than IScon members. Because they have had some issues with the institution, and they feel that, you know, that they don’t wanna identify as members. So we learn something, and then we are going ahead with our life. Now that’s only one way of looking at it.

One is we see it as alumni. But the other is, more important for most devotees, is that the focus is on learning, on Shastra. That what is the point of building a big temple? What is the point of distributing books if you’re not reading books out of it? Oh, being satisfied?

The facade people, you know, the architecture of the temple, sweetness of the theater, the decoration of the deities, all that is nice, but the real thing is the class. What kind of class do we have? So the class is just the same thing being repeated again and again. They can’t depend upon others. You know, that’s why you see many devotees who are more intellectually oriented.

You know, they just check out of the moment mentally. Because they feel it’s like, I’m in a university where the kindergarten student and the postgraduate student are expected that in the same class for the rest of their life. That’s how the Sunday feast has become, for example. There’s no point in it. There’s nothing I have to learn and to tell people if we have taste and hear the same thing.

So that just seems to the seems to our intellectual mind, just a justification for intellectual laziness on the part of the teachers. The tradition has so much depth. It’s a feeling that, you know, here, there is a focus on I want to learn. I want to understand the philosophy. I want to understand the nuances, the technicalities.

The school vision is very different from the office vision because in the school, the focus on learning. In the office vision, So what’s the point of memorizing so many local? What is the point of knowing why this was comes after this was? Do something for Krishna. Build a temple.

So those who are more programmatically oriented, they focus on the school vision. Now, of course, I’m not saying everybody who seeks scriptural knowledge is Brahminical. For many people studying scripture, maybe the just a means to impress others. So impress how learned I am, and therefore, you should follow me. So even the school vision can be out of Rajoguna, where the learning is not to go closer to Krishna, and the learning is not even to become a better person, better human being, better devotee.

But he didn’t just do so under that I know so much, and therefore, you should submit to me. But this is the school vision is where the focus is in university. Said towards the end of his life that we spent so much money building getting marble for building these temples. It would have better if we had just trained 10 people to become Gaudiya Vishnu, conscious followers, Gaudiya Vishnu’s followers, but also internalize Gaudiya Vishnu principles and teach that. Probal also emphasized.

But it’s interesting that during his lifetime, it did not get implemented much. It was later on that in the 19 eighties, when there were lot of devotees having lots of problems and lots of questionable things happening, and it’s almost unavoidable after the charismatic founder departs, His devotee should not get misled by these kind of things. Devotee should know the philosophy. Devotee should understand the philosophy. There was one particular temple president whose wife started propagating the idea that this temple president of the temple of Prabhupad.

He is actually a reincarnation of doctor Sundar Pritapod. The reports, oh my god. You are the reincarnation of our guru’s guru. So. Okay.

So what is happening, devotees are not reading books. And even within devotional circles, sometimes misconceptions can be propagated. The Prabhupad heard this. All of them reached, and he just went there and took all the temple authority, temple keys, treasury, and, other keys from that first person and told that basically, it’s empowered that person so that that particular misconception could not be propagated. And after profile deployed it they departed, there are many cause of misconceptions came up within the moment itself.

And then those had to be known, and so they wanted to decide that we have to make sure that they would study sharper. They wanted to be the leader of the side. So the school conception is being significantly emphasized. Now for the academic patient, at least, with some amount of, Bhakti Jafri is required to the school. Now when it comes to be a last part, is that it is a cultural or ritual training ground.

So this is where certain specific practices get overemphasized. What is the point of coming here? But, you know, we need to learn the mantras so that we can perform this yoga purpose. When you’re doing Aarti, no. This is the way you should move your hand.

This is the way you should do the archma. You are doing this. Do this only in this way. Not in that. We are having a the arty with flowers.

There’s one here who would select. Bupa, it arty plate, put 7 flowers. Not one more, not less. One time, he just became catatonic. He just became out he became he was the one that became catatonic.

You can put 8 flowers. That is an offense. You are you are not capable to. So small pages can be made in. This is how it was done.

This is how it has to be done. So the children, the group, the said, how many how much about the for the last How much about the should they be fed? Should the go to eat? Said 2, 3. Not too much.

Capacity. Some people may just have a lot of this strong metabolism. So they’re told, nobody can take more than 3 kapans. So now, this is where small things have been taken, and they’re made into huge peaks. So this can also be with respect to sadhana.

Sadhana is important. No doubt. But, like, too much emphasize on sadhana can lead to people feeling guilty or being made to feel guilty. Wherein the idea is that if you’re not doing this, then you are worthless. Everything that you do is of no value.

There can be phases. Somebody has a job with the night shift. They cannot actually wake up in the morning. You know, if there’s a pregnancy in the family, then there’s a newborn baby, same thing with more than a 24 by 7 job. So there will have to be some amount of flexibility.

But certain rituals, we can use the word positive word practices, and we have taken vows. They’re important. That’s all true. But the whole world of spirituality becomes reduced to these things only. How much are you conforming to this?

And if you’re not conforming to this, then you are worthless. So what is the most important so it’s the focus I’ll call on specific activities, specific practices or activities. This is what has to be done in this way, and this can be very a b and a d for some people. I remember one Mataji. I met her in, where was this?

In Europe. And she said that her husband got a heart attack and passed away suddenly. And she called her spiritual master and told that she was shattered and she was broken. And the first thing her master asked her was, had he completed the rounds on that day? Is that the only concern, but I talked with the master also.

He said, you know, I was he had made a wow. And he completed it all. That was my concern. Like, for sometimes, in that context, it can come up as monstrously insensitive. I remember another spiritual master when some accident happened in his spiritual and his and all the disciples died.

The the first thing he did was he was in a different country. He called everyone how their family is, and he asked the counselor to take care of the family, especially where some some people had become widows or orphans or whatever. So there is no question at all about whether on that particular day when the plane had crashed, had they completed their rounds or not? It can seem so so narrow minded and so insensitive to you at that particular time. So the specific practices, are they important?

The each of these is important. Prabhupad, for example, had people who were like members and who do enormous service. But, you know, because they didn’t fit into ISKCON’s definition of success, they didn’t become devotees. They didn’t become initiated. You see, Prabhupad and the 7 purposes of ISKCON does not mention his initiation at all.

It does not even mention 16 rounds or 4 rights for that matter. So Prabhupad is happy with them, but because they did not speak into the institution’s definition of success, most of them having, like, wiped out of the historical memory of ISKCON. But they did enormous amount of service. Some of them, of course, are there in the temple and other places. But many people help Prabhupada in many different ways, but they didn’t become initiated.

However, Prabhupa was not judgmental toward them. Are you chanting 16 rounds or not? What time are you making up? What time are you chanting? No.

That’s their life. They were ready to do. And Prabhupa appreciated their willingness to do. So and he engaged them accordingly. So yes.

Sometimes when this is this is almost because they the Prabhupad talks about this in terms of, say, it’s like a military discipline. We are in a war, and we should not question our commander. And then, Prabhupad and other reason, Prabhupad said that we have to be independently thoughtful. Ultimately, we have to fly our own plane. You know, nobody else our commander did not want to fly our plane for us.

And if we find that we are in too much danger, we are not able to say our plane is becoming less in fuel. We have to make a decision. The commander is not going to make a decision at that time. So the point is that each of these visions can have task break backing. We can have backing through through profile statements.

And if your these can also have operational functional value in the world. But the thing is I’ll conclude with 2 points over here now. That fanaticism, When did it occur? When my vision is equated with the only vision. So if I operate primarily based on the principle that this is a university, this is like a school, start thinking that somebody who has built a huge magnificent temple for Krishna where 50,000 people are coming every day.

How many profiles did you do? How many you don’t even know this reference? You have not read this Achera’s book, Achera’s commentary? How could you read profile books every day? So if I devalue someone based on that, then it’s not healthy.

He’s being fanatic. But if I equate my vision to the only vision, that will be fanatic, and we should not be doing that. But at the same time, so we could say one extreme is to become fanatical, where my vision is the only vision. The other is to become insecure. Why?

Because insecure will happen because when my vision does not match the authority’s vision or the community’s vision And then, therefore, one starts thinking that maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m worthless. Or maybe, you know, if I’m doing this, I cannot be a devotee. And because I need to do this, therefore, I cannot be a devotee. I remember one boy I met, he was into he said that, you know, when you knew you were speaking, I met you.

So there are people who may not want, so he said that, you know, he was told that he said to come into Bugdi. He he attended one of my classes. That was the 1st class of the youth meeting, in one of the youth outreach centers. And then he said, I love the philosophy, but I just could not set the practices. I met him in California.

He’s one of the, you know, the biggest donors for, Amaya Ra institution now. Not just a donor, but active member and supporter in many different ways also. So he said that, but I just I love the philosophy, but I just couldn’t stick to the practices. I found this practice we find the people. So he said that I was told that you cannot read any books other than Probuphath’s books.

He said that since my the day of 7, I’ve been weak. I’ve read 2 books. I’ve read I do make a habit of reading a 100 books every year. So at least and not just like a novel. I like to read self help.

I like to read biographies. I like to read serious Buddhist. No. He said the idea that I should read only these books. If this is what it’s going to require, this is what Krishna wants to require, I can only.

So then he said, I still wanted to be spiritual. So I found the organization that was more accommodating for my intellectual needs. And he went there. So now we should be telling people what to read. If you start informing what you should not read.

Now most people don’t read anything. Only thing they read is WhatsApp messages and social media posts. For some people, what are their life? For Brahmanas, they live in books. So we don’t need to can become too intellectually confining.

So, similarly, it could be that somebody cannot become a Pujari for whatever reason. And at all, you cannot become Pujari, what is the use of your service? So that should not happen. So what should we should do is we don’t want to become fanatical and criticize others, insecure, and then devalue ourselves or devalue our practice of Bakti or our potential to practice Bakti also. Instead, we need to find like minded association.

So when we find like minded association, that means, okay, this person is doing this, and this person is doing this. So, this is where this is the mood. And when I use when we use the word mood, sometimes we use the word mood and mission together. The mood and mission of. But in my understanding, these 2 are very different.

There can be many moods. So Prabhupra had mood when he said, okay. This is most important to me. It doesn’t nothing as important as, gurukuls. There’s children are more Moods are many.

Mission is 1. The mission is Krishna consciousness, and there can be many different moods in which the consciousness can be pursued. So we need to find like minded devotees, those who have the same vision. Can there be something beyond HoSP? Some other conception, of course.

Some people may have a combination of 1 or 2 also, but I’m not saying this is exhaustive. Like, the the first four is exhaustive. There’s nothing beyond these 4 modes, 4 levels, apart from more than Transcendence. Although in real life, it could be complex combination of the 4 levels in function. So there could be but in contrast with this, it’s 4.

There could be more than that also. And there could be a combination of these blocks, but this is indicative that just because devotees seem to be taking decisions, it just seem to be not making any sense for us and does not mean those devotees are not in devotional content. It just means they’re operating from a different values. Their values system is centered on the idea that this is a home or office or a school or a training ground, and that’s why they’re being disciplined to see it. So so rather than becoming judgmental towards others, we try to find our place.

We try to find our place, and from there, we can move towards Krishna. From our place where we are secure right now, and we can steadily move towards the trend this way. If we keep our purpose, Krishna, then we will both move vertically upward from the lower modes. So with the purpose of Krishna, we will be able to move vertically through the modes towards transcendence. But where necessary, we will also move horizontally so that to a compatible conception.

To a place where there is a place with a com conception that is compatible with our understanding or our priority, our way of practicing. So individuals may have to do this, and leaders should also be broad minded enough. There’s some people who are most colorly. Then they should not be told, come on. Just go and distribute books.

They need to be guided to some colorly mentor or guide. Some devotees very particular in rituals. How is this skill get to be done? How is this worship to be done? Guide them to someone who is a specialist in that field, and let them be engaged.

We don’t have to be the authority for everyone, and we don’t have to guide. We don’t have to think that because I brought this person, this person lifelong, should be taking my guidance only. So if you have that broad mindedness, then well, so so the devotees devotees need to have the courage, and the authority needs to have the consideration by which this horizontal movement can be facilitated, by which everybody can find their place where they can comfortably and sustainably towards Krishna. I’ll summarize what I discussed today. Mainly, it was 2 part 2 large parts.

1 was we’re talking about 4 visions. One was based on levels, and the other was based on perspectives. So on levels, we’re talking about the mountain. We have Amas, Rajas, Satwa and Shraddha Satwa. So in Shraddha Satwa, we see this as so all these we see, they did arenas for different things.

I know for Krishna Leela. This is the. Then arena for purification. So we try to accordingly create an atmosphere. This is it more of a division.

Then arena for achievement. It can be achieved for Krishna’s service, but it’s prime and the focus on achievement. And it is enough for domination. Yeah. Nobody should question me what I’m doing.

Anybody challenges that person will be destroyed. This is this is definitely destructive, but all the other visions are possible to be engaged with Krishna service. And we need to be churning the bills. That means we need to be rising from where we are to a higher conception. And then I talked about how there could be these 4 conceptions of home, where relationships are prioritized over tasks.

Not just task. Relationships are prioritized. You know what learning, training in particular. Everything else. Office but I just open in the contract.

Office is where tasks are prioritized. The school is where learning is prioritized, and training ground is where particular cultural or ritual practices are. So cultural ritual practices are prioritized. And each of these may be done with a sincere save of how. It’s not that save of how is a monopoly of only 1 person.

But for us to be able to function, we need to avoid being fanatical, where we equate my vision is equal to the only right vision. We become insecure and lose confidence and even I cannot practice because because my vision or my conception has no value. Instead, we take the responsibility to find like minded association, whereby we can have the space by which we we can have the plate from which we can launch our attention to Krishna. Ultimately, for our purpose of Krishna consciousness, which is our supreme purpose, now we can move vertically and vertically, we move each one of us will move our piece. Some people will primarily be Najova and for them to move to our support, we’ll take their time.

And, horizontally, we will move from workplace. We need to so and in Krishna’s mercy, the second part of 4:11 is. All people are on my path. That means what is it? It’s from your place at your pace, access Krishna’s grade.

Some from your place could be from the place of conception that you are at you are this is a school. Your place. It’s somebody this is office, and that person is at Rajogona. For the majority of their life, they will serve in Rajopoda at your pace. They don’t have to be deluded into coming to.

They will come naturally. So from your place at your pace, that’s Krishna’s grace. Thank you very much.