Diwali Meditation – The light that illumines and the light that doesn’t

Hare Krishna Today Evening is Diwali and I’ll speak today on the topic of light and darkness. When we talk about this theme, 1 of the most famous, 1 of the most famous उपनिषदिक statements is move from darkness to light.

And in 1 sense, if you look at our own lives, nobody wants to be in darkness. Even if somebody wants to do something in darkness, somebody wants to rob or steel but they want to have enough lights so that they can do it but they don’t want others to see the have a light to see them. So in that sense, nobody actually wants darkness. The what we we all who would not want to go from darkness to light. Everybody goes in light is where we can see, we can act, we can do things but then this if it’s, it’s a simple commas is directive go from darkness to light.

But what does it mean? Actually, if you look at the context, there are 3 things over there. So go from, go from in mortality to mortality. That go from that which is unreal to that which is real. So now in that is the context where this call comes up, go from darkness to light.

So darkness is associated with temporariness and darkness is associated with unreality and go from darkness to light. When this statement comes up in the उपनिषदs, we see in the broad वैदिक body of knowledge, what is taught in the उपनिषदs that is in so many ways demonstrated in the पुराणा and the इतिहास. So historically, दीवाली celebrated when the residence of अयोध्या are delighted and they are belcoming lord रामबैक. And when they are belcoming the lord back at that time, they offer him, they light the whole अयोध्या with lands, to sign to welcome him and that also represents the lighting of their own hearts. So so, the ultimate light of the heart comes when our heart becomes illuminated by the presence of the supremely luminous weak that is the supreme law.

So I’ll talk about this theme of the festival of lights in terms of 4 quadrants. Say it is that as we we are talking here about not just simple like and darkness, but the light of knowledge, spiritual knowledge. It helps us to see the ultimate reality. So we could say that the 4 quadrants are we are in dark dark and we know we are in dark. That’s so not dark.

State and awareness. We are in dark, we are aware, we are in dark. We are in dark, but we think we are in light. We are in light, but we think we are in dark. And we are in light and we know we are in light.

So, which is the best state to be in? The light, the we are in light and to be aware that we are in light. Which is the worst state to be in. We are in dark but we think we are in. See, actually, from a emotional perspective, from an experiential perspective, to be in dark and to think that we are in to know that we are in dark is most painful.

But we will get out of it. Because it’s unbearable, it’s unbelievable state to me. But to be in dark and to think that we are in light. So that is, we could say if you want to give 1 1 identifying describer for each of these. So to be in dark and to know that we are in dark is to be, looser.

To be in dark and the thing that we are in light is to be deluidd. We are illluid. We are illusion. We are deluid because of the illusion. To be in light and to not know that we are in light.

To be light and to think that we are in dark that is the state of doubtfulness And to be in light and to know that we are in light, that is the state of enlightenment, to be enlightened. So, here, if we consider when we live in the world, when we say we are in dark, if if we are driving along the road and suddenly everything is dark. Not only are there no lights on the road, but even our own cars headlight street lights, headlights go away. Then we will come to a stop. Should I move forward?

What should I do? What should I not do? So to be dark and to be in the state of darkness, to be aware that we are in dark. That means to to be in a state where we don’t know what to do. And then at that time we look, what should I do?

What should I do at that time? So अर्जुन at the start of the भगवत गीता was in the first initially in second quarterent. He was of course अर्जुना is enlightened soul but कृष्णा is teaching us something through him and therefore what कृष्णा does is? He uses a particular method. He puts अर्जुना into rule.

So अर्जुना has a plan for his life, he is a क्षत्रिय and a क्षेत्रीय he has to fight a war, he has to gain the kingdom which has been stored from his family and he wants to have judicial and throw it as a king. But then he starts, is this fight worth it? So much blood shed, so much killing of loud ones, what is really worth it? And then when he says नचय तत्व with माँ कतर नो गरीबों, यत्वा जेयो यानि बह् ध्वा नजीविशामस, तेयवस्थिता प्रभु केदार तस्त्रा I just don’t see any good option. All options are bad over here.

So that is the state when he surrenders to कृष्णा. So he is initially in that second stage but he comes to the first first quarter second quarter to first quadrant. And that’s the in the भगुरि that takes अर्जुन of a journey on the first quadrant to the fourth quadrant. Fourth quadrant is where he becomes enlightened. Now for all of us, we also come at times in our lives and we have particular plans for our life, this is what I’m going to do, this is what I’m going to do.

And some plans work, some don’t work, we keep moving on. कि इस life time कि इस पिछली very very very school इन थिस ए कि इस विधि thing व धुंध अट ऑल I was once giving a class on this 03:27 भगवत गीता. Class and at that time, this I asked this question the बबीता says that is done by the more than want to think that they are the durs are an illusion. So this raises many questions. So what are the questions that I raised?

So I was thinking expecting that you know how we do things how is the mores are doing actually. We work and everything. So 1 devotee is known in the devotee community to be quite lazy person. So he asked what question comes? What question comes why should I do anything?

If the modes I do everything and why should I do anything? The time for प्रसाद comes you don’t ask why should I do anything. Where you can do it प्रसाद where where it comes for for us in the साधक stage, eating and sleeping are the most cherished past times. And then hearing and चांटing, they are like the oster prescribed duties. So, actually, when we say that the more they are doing everything, what is the need to do anything?

So in this stage when we are in the fourth quadrant, we we genuinely feel I just don’t know what to do. And that is the time most likely we seek notch. But many people live in the second quadrant because the first quadrant is more or less unlable. We had to get out of that as quickly as possible. Now where we get out that depends on our past inclination, that depends on association, that depends on our free will.

So most people go to the second quarter where they think their knowledge but they don’t actually know. Then darkness, they think that they are in light. In fact, 1 of the names for the राक्षस आज़ाद is निशाचर. निशाचर is those who move at night. So now, physically there is darkness but actually their vision becomes more acute.

Like, aws who can see very well at night. They also become active at night. The night is a good time to act and to attack and everything like that. So when we are in the second quadrant where we think we do. The result of that is that we don’t even try to come out of our come out of come to real light, cause we think we are in light.

And this is where the 2 energies of illusion. There are 2 energies are, अवर्णात्मिका शक्ति and प्रक्षेपात्मका शक्ति. So it is a covering potential and the throwing potential. So to understand this through energy in simple ways we can consider a movie theatre. As soon as we enter in the movie theatre, 1 light goes off and another light goes on.

So the lights around us, all of them go off. And then we can’t see much around us. That’s the अवनात्मिका शक्ति. Everything else we can’t see. And then the parakshipaat का शक्ति is 1 light goes on.

So then we just our attention gets glued to the screen. तो our consciousness gets hold towards that. So at that time we get caught in a particular illusion that we projected and we start experiencing that to be the reality. So most of us we live in the state and it is not often that we remember that we’re living over here. That is, we could say about the conception of life within which we can all take up various causes.

So within this somebody can live sub toward just तमस more or less enlightened states or more or less aware states. But they are spiritually unaware states. And in the last few centuries, scientific knowledge is advanced tremendously and the result of that is more and more people have come to the second level and they think that is the enlighten level. Now when the, let’s let’s this second level. The third level would be what?

We are in knowledge. We are in light, but we don’t know we are in light. Just do think we are in the office. The problem with the world is actually not ignorance. The problem with the world is that the wise people are doubtful and the foolish people are ultra confident.

Those who don’t know anything perfectly sure this is how it is. So, we see when we practice भक्ति many times we might questions this spiritual world really exists, कृष्णा really care for me rat in that. There are so many questions. But when people pursue materialistic goals. No doubt at all.

If I just get this promotion my life is going to be successful. If I just get this I wrote a book on reincarnation. And I answered questions lot of questions. 1 of the most amusing questions and asked me that and love the girl and both want to get married but somehow our family are violently opposed. And it’s not working So can you tell me what कर्म I can do so that I can marry her in my next life?

So in Bollywood there is a lot of depiction of reorganization and reorganization is used primarily as a plot twist to just extend. Ok there is a tragedy in this life but then there is a union in the next life. So the conception of roin coordination has been romanticized quite a bit. Romanticized and sensationalize. So many people have this idea of soul mate.

You know how can we find our soul mate? I usually say first find your soul. So when we are, when we have kind of desire, at that time, we may have knowledge even if we have knowledge of reorganization. But there is knowledge and there is a purpose of knowledge. So if we are not aware of the purpose of knowledge, then that knowledge doesn’t have much value.

I may know how to operate a complicated computer. But if I don’t really know what a computer is meant to be used for. And I just use a very high end computer simply for playing video games. Then in the computer I can do a lot more things but then I may have that knowledge but I don’t really understand that I am in knowledge. I am in light but I don’t realize I am in light.

So, many people who say grow up in a spiritual culture, who grow up in a spiritual society, spiritual society, spiritual family, they have knowledge but they are not really aware that they have that knowledge. And because of that, they’re always looking outward, looking elsewhere for something else. He is an American thinker, Mark Din, he said that when I was 15, my father was a fool. Now he’s 25 and I’m amazed how much the old guy has learned in the last 10 years. Sir now it’s not so much the old guy that the father has learned But the way that person thinks at 15, the way person thinks at 25 is very different.

So 15 and just 30 many hormones are coming out and I just wants to be free. But by 25 1 more taking a whole responsibility. Then 1 start appreciating other prospective also. So even if 1 has knowledge, 1 has wisdom, 1 has light, but 1 doesn’t realize that they have light, then that is a state also of deprivation. And beyond that is a state of the fourth quadrant.

What is that? Light. Yeah, we have light and we are aware that we have light. So for those of us who have started practicing भक्ति, we are, to some extent in the we oscillatd. Not that we are permanently in 1 quadrant, but to some extent we are in third quadrant.

We’re trying to move towards the fourth quadrant. So now if we consider what is the what is the ultimate light? You could say the light of knowledge. Yes, that is true, but it’s more than knowledge. Ultimately, there is a source of knowledge.

And that source of knowledge is the supreme person and that supreme person is all attractive, is all loving. And the भगवत गीता says that the ultimate light is the light that comes from devotion. चक्षु श्लोकी भगवत गीता is a कृष्ण first says I am the supreme, those who understand him, they become they become wise and they constantly delight in discussing about me and the next But then what if somebody knows कृष्णा but they don’t become voice. Then कृष्ण answers that in 10:10. And he says for them, I make them voice.

प्रीतिपूर्वक ultimate knowledge is the knowledge comes from भक्ति. So the because ultimately we don’t just know to know, belong to love. The heart’s deepest long thing is not a longing for knowledge. It’s a longing for love, loving connection, loving relationship. And that comes when we find the ultimate object of love.

So भगवता says the ultimate enlightenment is to know whom to love. The whole heart. You understand that कृष्णा is the ultimate object of love. That is enlighten the enlighten state. So सर्ववीर is a person knows everything.

So coming to the, so this is the philosopher context and coming to the रामायण now, which is the historical context for this particular दीवाली festival. The whole idea is that if we consider in the रामायण, राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम then if you consider कई At least when she has ram exiled she think she knows what is going on. She think as a conspiracy effort to to deploy her son of the kingship and that’s why she vohmantly protests. Then she is in the second quadrant. Where, now of course you can also say there राम रिटर्न्स it is the बृजवास AYYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA अट थे long गाउन भारत कि इस note ready टो have any रॉयल रॉयल कंफर्ट्स अट ऑल कि चीज़ वेटिंग if यू don’t कम after 14 years यू can even वन डे लेट सचिव find ए dead body आई don’t believe any फुर्थर कि दिल्ली tax राम उत्पादक please give me your shoes, the sandals and I will put them on the thrown.

Now, if today’s world say there is a maybe a big wealthy person die and their children are fighting. And 1 brother use the shoe for the other brother. The other brother will take it and bang on his head. Not carry on his own head. So often there are succession struggles which break out in the succession struggles are being of usually because of selfishness.

I want everything. In the रामायण also after the shuttle’s departure is a succession struggle. Succession conflict is there but that succession conflict is because of selflessness. That both of them are saying राम is saying भारत you be the king, भारत सिंह राम you be the king. So that is extraordinary.

So although So although भरत has the great devotion but still he feels in the separation from राम, my life and heart is dark. And does there is illusion, there is delusion. There is distress not illusion but distress. And generally, in when the lord descends to the world, see is it that every single person when when the lord listens to the world, is everyone already a pure devotee? What do you think?

In the lord remains? Well, there are certainly the ultimate associates of the lord who are already exulted devotees. But there are others who are fortunate to be there and they become animated. So even at that time, when the lord performs some miracle activities, lord said does something extraal, then that attracts people. And even when he is there, it’s not that everybody is convinced that he is the lord, not that everybody is devoted to it.

So, there are people who are in the presence of the lord but they don’t necessarily accept him as the lord. Of course the demons are there, they are in the presence but some of them accept, some of them don’t accept. विभीषण comes over to राम साहेब and in विभीषण not only comes over to राम साहेब for the war but विभीषण also comes for the coordination. Abbreviation gives the पुष्पका, with which राम returns to अयोध्या. So if the lord when the festival of lights which is which happens in अयोध्या that is a historical event but that is also a eternal event that is meant to happen in our own hearts.

Our heart is a अयोध्या and we might be in any of the other 3 quadrants and we pray that the that the light of भक्ति, the light of प्रेमा luminaar heart and we really really initial that lumination. That is what we aspire for and whatever level we might be at if you are the first, second or third quarterance the law is attractive enough to bring us to him. Where we may be if we have doubts with third quarter can play to the law that we find out the way is by which is doubts can be destroyed So, usually if we consider, if we have desires, we move, if we have doubts, we don’t move. Also doubts and desires are 2 forces that come from a settle box. And usually if somebody is in the first quadrant, just don’t know what to do.

They have doubts and they have no desires. Or is everything worth doing at all. So from there, the doubts are removed and then emotional divine desires are create. भक्ति is the process where we desire to love itself the lord and do as much as we can to share his glories with others. Sometimes we go to the second quadrant because we have a lot of desires and And get caught those desires.

So then in that case sometimes the darkness is cause because of the presence of doubts, Subway that darkness is cause because of the presence of world desires. Then from there we need, purification in the sense of the removal of desire. And then, as those desires get removed, then we start moving towards the light. Sometimes, we meet in the third quadrant where we have spiritual knowledge but still we have a lot of doubts. And for us the elevation to an life, journey to an enlightenment requires the removal of the doubts.

The removal of the doubts is what will take us towards the lord. So, we all have doubts. But what our challenge is not, the problem is not having doubts. The problem is believing our doubts. Yeah, even we believe our doubts, we need to, what happens is often we believe our doubts and we doubt our believes.

But instead, we can learn ok, this is a doubt. But maybe the doubt is not the ultimate. We can doubt our doubts. Let me evaluate it. So there are proper ways in which we can address our doubts.

But whatever it is that is keeping us in darkness, we pray that the lord remove it from our heart. As the lord remove it from our heart, then this state of enlightenment. It’s state where we are in light and we appreciate that we are in light, that manifest in our life and that happens by the mercy of the lord and his devotees. So on special festivals like दीवाली, the Lord’s mercy is available more and more and श्री प्रभुपा has given us the कृष्ण consciousness movement where we can get this light and we can get the awareness of this light. And if we stay in the social devotees and seek this light, seek the light of, light of प्रेमा, light of film भक्ति.

Then the Lord’s blessings are there for every 1 of us to elevate his upward. So although it was an अयोध्या itself, the conspiracy had happened by which the lord was sent away, but still the lord came back. So the lord, although the अयोध्या was he sent Lord Ram away, but Lord Ram had abandoned him. So similarly for us, even if we have turned away from the lord, the lord never turns away from us. He is always with us.

His love for us is not based on our goodness. His love for us is based on his godliness. Means, we may be pious, we may be impire, we may be pure, we may be impure. His love for us is not based on that. Every 1 he offers is love.

And wherever somebody might be, he just turn towards the lord. Then he is ready to illumin each and every heart with the supreme light of भक्ति. And that is what we can pray for on the second occasion of दीवाली. Pray to the lord and pray the lord’s great devotees so that they can bless our heart and this festival of light can happen not just through the beautiful lights that we light outside our homes but also through the light of spiritual knowledge and the right of divine law of भक्ति that illumance our heart. So I summarize, I spoke today on this topic of दीपाली and I spoke of how this famous saying in the उपनिषदs go from light, darkness to light is illustrated in the epigx, stressed the रामायण.

So, it is not just talking about simple physical darkness to physical light, we’re talking about the darkness that keeps us in mortality and in and ignorance or असत्त, non existant in the temporary. From there we move to immortality and reality, that what is that light to understand that I talk about this 4 quadrants. What are the first quadrant? Misrable. Misrable.

So we are in dark and we are aware that we are in dark. We want to get out of it. Most people can’t stay there for very long. But if we are there, it seems miserable but it can also be the dog away to fortune. Or second quadrant?

Deilivision. Deilivision. We are in ताकन, but we think we are in light. So that is the path of material progress to the exclusion of spiritual progress. So we have a light to pursue only things, but we don’t recognize that they are all ultimately temporary.

And from this sector to come out is not so easy. We have to either come down or go to the higher sector for the third 1, doubt, that is, we have lie, we have li but we do not realize that we have lite. That is a state when we are caught in a state where we don’t appreciate what we have and many spiritual many of us as such as are in that state. We may oscillat between various various states but the fourth state is the state of we are in light, enlightenment, we are in light and we know that we are in light. So we can say that when there is when there are doubts, doubts and desires are 2 obstructions.

The doubts and worldly desires we could say. So whatever be the obstacle the light or the light light can remove both of them. Light can expose to us the futility of the wholely desires and light can expose to us the hollowness of our doubts and through that we can move towards the state of enlightenment and for each 1 of us wherever we are, the lord always is there with us. अयोध्यावासी send the lord away the lord still came back, lord didn’t abandon him. So the lord’s love for us is not based on our goodness but on his godliness.

He is all loving parent of everyone and if you just turn towards him and seek his prayers and seek his mercy, he will elevate us from wherever we may be. Thank you very much. हरे कृष्णा. Any questions? Yes, please.

So, you mentioned that the we intend to be in the third and fourth quarter where we are in, say, performing भक्ति in the mode of darkness as a state. That is a dangerous state. Yes, it is that if we don’t know anything about कृष्णा then we may do wrong in the sense of being a committeds. But if we know about कृष्णा still keep doing wrong then may be well will be offences. And offences are often more dangerous in the sense.

That’s 1 way of looking at it. Other ways also that we cannot wish away the modes that we were born with. We want to work them, work ourselves out of them, we gonna work them away. But we are, we are born with a particular mode. So so we could that that whole section I have been a series of 3 classes on भक्ति in the 3 modes.

But that whole section illustrates can see from 2 perspective. 1 is that when we are practicing भक्ति you can’t assume that just because I am practicing भक्ति I am transdental. That I have to see in which mode I am functioning. And we try to elevate ourselves to a progressively higher level of consciousness. And, so especially if somebody is performing भक्ति in the mode of ignorance and in the state of darkness and they think what I am doing is equivalent to what a pure devotey is doing or what a devotey is goodness is doing, then that is when the problem comes up.

But if the other perspective is that भक्ति is so inclusive that even somebody in तमोगुणा can practice it. The practices like ज्ञान or योगा, it is very very difficult for somebody who doesn’t have some strong level of support to practice. So we can say that that भक्ति is inclusive in the sense that even those who are the lowest of modes can also start practicing भक्ति. But the practice of the practice of भक्ति is that, ok, that we rise from the lower modes higher. So it is कृष्णा’s love that he accepts even those who are functioning in the mode of ignorance.

But what is if we stay in the mode of ignorance then where is our love for question? So we need to strike to rise. So we don’t reject somebody who is in the mode of ignorance. So if so if somebody just functionally that way, then they’ll function in that way itself and is that dangerous? Well, it’s dangerous if they are complainant and they think that this is equal into what anybody else is doing.

But if it is, if that is the only way they will get elevated, Then they had to accommodate it. You can consider the प्रभु पाल how he dealt with many of the hippies during the counter culture. He accommodated them. Many of them when they would come for classes, they would come high on drugs And from the children calm them down and try to speak them. If प्रभुपाद that said that, that nobody who is high, they should not come for the class.

There will nobody left for the class. So प्रभुपाल was a community. Mister प्रभुपाल did not, प्रबल accepted them. So there is a there is a, there are there are 2 aspects in in the practice of भक्ति. 1 is accepting people where they are and second is encouraging them to rise up world.

So sometimes if we just only accept, then they may not rise at all. And if you only emphasize on rising but do not accept where they are, then they feel very uncomfortable and they feel judged and rejected. So both aspects are required and accept people where they are but also show them the hierarchy. We don’t hide the hierarchy that the trajectory. What hierarchy can sound a little sectary and let you know judgmental but that is a trajectory.

This is the path we are all meant to move up. So we need to do the right thing. When somebody needs acceptance we offer them that. When somebody needs a little push to rise up and that also needs to be offered. Do I answer your question?

Yes. We had दीवाली was celebrated when राम was coming back from back to अयोध्या. And also in कृष्णा लीला, दामोदर past time happened on the दीवाली deal. Correct. But in India from when we grow up, we hear that कृष्णा killing narkasur is a cause for दीवाली.

But where this comes from or what is the difference for that? Ok, so कृष्णा killing narkasur is also the cause for दीवाली. Well, if you consider historically many festivals in India are are clustered together. So, if you can say दीवाली for 4 5 days, there is बलिपतिपदा is there. When बलि मरा surrenders to the lord.

That is also 1 day. Then there are many other festivals which also come at the same time. Usually, the लक्ष्मी पूजा that is done. So what is, what happened traditionally in India was that that while there was understanding there 1 supreme lord, but there were many other, the 1 who lord himself was worshiped in many forms and there are other देवताs also were worshiped. So over the centuries, many of the festivals are clubed together.

And I saw कृष्णा, Killen Arkasur there is रूपा गोस्वामी says their शास्त्र प्रमाण and there is a लोक प्रमाण. In the भक्त श्यामा संधू he says. So as far as the भागोतन doesn’t give a date specifically of when when नरकासुर was killed. It doesn’t mentioned that. But most much of what we celebrate the festivals and specific ways in the celebrate the festivals.

That doesn’t always come from शास्त्र. That comes from the tradition. So a लोक coming it’s not just public opinion what he says is that लोकाहिया refers to those who are already those लोका people who are already devoted to the lord their understanding. So for example, if you go to उंदावन many varjvasis devotees were really devoted their life to वृंदावन and to कृष्णा. They may tell many stories about कृष्णा which you may not find directly in the शास्त्रs.

Those don’t necessarily have to be rejected just because they are not found in the शास्त्र. They can be accepted in लोक भ्रमण. So quite often the exact dates of many festivals, they may or may not come from शास्त्र, they may come from the tradition. Thank you. But is there a date mentioned, I don’t think the date is mentioned.

The date? I mean, it is in the 1 of the chapters. I know, but but, you are saying, this question was that, why is it associated with दीवाली? Oh, why, it is not mentioned Ok. So couple of questions.

So third quadrant. In the talk or some people out of hermity they have come back was their school wants to switch the some of the bodys also out of hermity or they mentioned it. Do they also follow in the same career? They are in light but they mouth. It’s a good question.

Ok, first disclaimer. That any kind of categorization that we do, all categorizations are conceptual tools. Reality never fall falls very neatly into categories. So if you consider a map, now a map, you may say this is America and this is Canada. But if you actually go geographic curly, you don’t mind that.

Which is this is this place in America or this place in Canada? There could be dispute about that. If you said, ok, this river is the. Well, is it that 50 percent of the water, the river is belonging to America, 50 percent to America. You can solve any kind of conceptual categorization that we do, we can always place, we can all, when real life when we apply that categorization, it is not everything is not so neatly fitting into categories.

So categorization is often a tool to understand things and so we for example, we say there are 4 categories of people who come to question. And we say ध्रुवा was अर्थार्थy. He was, he was seeking wealth. But then ध्रुवा was also अर्थो, isn’t it? He also very distressed.

He was felt so afflicted by his mother’s words that he he just left home. Be unable to hear the reflection. So we could any categorization is not necessarily black and white. So with that disclaimer, to move forward, we can say that there are, there are उत्तम अधिकारीs, there are मध्यम अधिकारीs. So, उत्तम अधिकारीs are those who see the world as filled with only devotees and they cannot really breach, they cannot really give कृष्ण not very much because everybody has कृष्ण.

Everybody is already serving कृष्णा. But who can give कृष्णा? Those are मध्यमाले. They can see, ok, this person is practicing भक्ति. This person is not practice भक्ति and whatever is stopping this person to practicing भक्ति let me help them to remove that.

Now when great वैष्णव’s they act humbly or big big compositions. So that is a state where they are seeing the greatness of कृष्णा so much and their experiencing the love of कृष्णा so much, they think what am I doing to reciprocate with it. And when that awareness of कृष्णा greatness and कृष्णा love is so prominent that they feel whatever I am doing is nothing and does they feel oh कृष्ण has done so much for me. I had nothing for कृष्णा. I am such a followers.

I am such a safer. So that that is because a very high level of awareness of कृष्णा. So which which category would it fall in? You could say it could fall in third. But it is we also understand it is they that is out of their humidity, out of their great absorption in कृष्णा and they are when we say they are taking the role of a साधिका.

It doesn’t mean they are artificial doing that They actually feel like that. But they feel like that because they think कृष्णा is so great and I am so small. So you could say that they are the third category. Yeah. The second loud, just loud.

What is that mean love? When you say from that perspective because everybody has their own definitions. So if you can share something. Ok, yeah. So everybody has their own definition of love.

Yeah, I have a full class 1 5 of the definition of love love is love is emotion, love is attraction, as emotion is if you feel, we feel love in somebody’s presence, love as attraction. Some, I am in love. If you feel overwhelming attracted to that person. Love as expectation. You don’t love me anymore.

That is love as expectation. Then there is love as action. There is love as love as express to action. There is love is not just now it’s also work. Yeah, love is love love is done through what what is what is needed for the other person, we do that.

And action that leads further to love is dedication. Not just through action, but we are committed. Love is commitment or dedication. There are various aspects of love. So similarly, if you consider भक्ति, many people when they talk about भक्ति they think of भक्ति as emotion.

When I come to the temple I feel so good. I feel so good. They say that when I have the भाव in my heart then I will chand the whole lives. Then I will surrender my life to कृष्ण. Now the problem is that भाव there is a भाव.

There is no भाव there is a shortage of that kind of भाव always and emotion is not there. So the way the has explained भक्ति you could say that also devotion love or divine love. It is it is not an emotion. It is not even expectation. So शीलनम means cultivation.

So devotion is not just emotion, but it is essentially conscious continuous cultivation. Conscious continuous cultivation. That is the essence. If we start focusing on love us emotion, love us expectation, love us attraction then we may sometimes feel it and sometimes not feel it at all. So 1 day we feel oh I love कृष्णा.

I leave the whole world and just surrender my whole life to कृष्णा. Next day if he does कृष्णा even exist? So we will also like that. That’s why we need to focus on this the idea of love as action and love as dedication. Translate भक्ति also not just as devotion whereas devotional service.

So love and if we are trying to develop our love profession that means we focus on love as action and dedication. Nothing much thank you. Yes, how much. प्रभु जी this is more a comment and I ask you. Thank you this is the first time I heard that bhagalgam was could the report of the was be and I haven’t read propars burbo.

I think every religion or philosophy has its share of manatical people and sometimes I have observed that the most religious people happen to be the least tolerant and the most judgement is the point of the knowledge and the purpose of the knowledge to always look inward subjectively ask ourselves among these 4 quadrants where are my and not about why is this person or that person? Is often used more for proving than for improving. Instead of improving my own consciousness, we focus on proving I am right. So instead of developing our own love for कृष्णा, we often focus on proving what you are doing in कृष्णा, service is wrong. So that becomes a big problem.

Yeah. So the inward focus is always good and ultimately, that’s what is in our control. There is a, for that, you could have there’s another, I have another class with 4 quadrants. I won’t go into that, I can make make it briefly. There is, there is concern for people and concern for process.

So, if you could say again 4 quarters, there is no concern for people and no concern for process. It’s a process whether it’s it’s people, they can include ourselves, concern for improving ourselves and concern for how do I go about improving myself? Our concern for improving others and how do I go about improving others? So if there is no concern for either people or process, that is millism. That millism is just life has no meaning, why do anything at all.

And if there is concern for process but not people. It is like say, if you consider a a surgeon who is extremely mateiculous that they want to follow all the protocols exactly. This is how the surgeon is to be, this is how it is been, this this this this this. It’s good to have concern for the process but suppose the patient has some other complications because of the process can’t be followed and we follow it, that’s going to be disaster for the patient. This is what has to be followed, that’s all that there is sweet, Concern for people not process.

Sorry, concern for process not for people. So though these people usually become sentiment. Sorry, they become fanatic. They become fanatics. This is what has to be done.

The whole concern is that’s all. No no questions asked. Say, say then, so there is very little concern for context over there. And such people can become very hard hearted. Then there are others who are there is concern for people but no concern for process.

They are the people who become relatives. Ok, this doesn’t work for you, just give it. That works for you do it. So there there is only concern for people, no concern for process. So if if this, if this feels, if this feels bad for you, just don’t do it.

So we could say that these are now fanatics and relatives. These are more, we could say more extreme versions of these 2. But you would also have conservative and liberals. Liberals have a greater concern for people than process and conservative have a greater concern for process than people and actually, both are needed. You, if you want to do a surgery, you have to follow the process.

But you also have to see the background of the patient and then you have to see how that process works for the person. Sometimes it happens that, now we we give up, it happened with me once that I was, there is always the zeal of the new convert. So I was just 1 and 1 and a half years and I was working in a company. So 1 of my colleagues, he has been a co student with me in my college also. So both of us joined the same company.

So we were, we would, so I would go for the bus, so it’s 1 hour ride and he would join 2 stop later. And then when I was in the 1 hour ride, I would daily either chant or read or hear some class, I would not talk with anyone at all. And 1 day his friend made the big mistake. His mistake was he asked me what are you doing? And then in the next 1 hour I gave him the ultimate crash course on भगवत गीता from the existence of god to the existence of soul to the establishing that भक्ति is the only way and कृष्णा is the only supreme god and does the sbruttal world is full with misery and the spiritual world is a source of all happiness and I didn’t even notice that his eyes were looking.

He is very overwhelm. There after that normally bus has 2 doors. So after that whenever he would climb to the bus, he will first keep in see where I am sitting and then coming from the other door. So I think 1 and half 2 years ago I met him in Catel and then his sister has become a devotee, probably sister under the damage that I had done. So that we talk about we have a good laugh, I apologize to him.

So what happens sometimes, we just think that, I, you know, I for some people, the idea of preaching is simply downloading a fix program on everyone. This is it, just tell them, कनहरे कृष्णा be happy. It’s good but you know, you have to see what where they are coming from, is that message intelligible for them? You just look at their contacts and then speak so when they have that, when some people have their idea that, this is the program, just download on everyone. Then what happens is, the भगवत गीता once applies you know, our pitching successful and the soul becomes liberated.

They go never to come back to the weapon. So we have to have concern for the process and concern for people both. Then that is, so the fourth quarter will be the spiritualists. Those who are spiritual they understand the process and they understand the productive other process. So, yes this is the protocol we follow for this surgery but ultimately, the point is not just to follow the protocol, the point is to heal the person.

This third quarter could be somebody uses. The patient says, don’t know the surgery will cause me a lot of pain. So, the doctor says, I want to do the surgery only. Well, no. We have to do it.

We have to do in the proper way. So, yes, fanatics, fanatics are a problem, sentimentalities are also a problem. So, conservative and liberals both are needed. And in some cases so who is right? There is no guarantee there is no fixed answer.

Sometimes it is the process that needs to be emphasized. We can’t adjust everything. But sometimes it is people need to look at this person’s context and then do act accordingly. The answer your question. Thank you.

How can we ensure that we don’t get new people we also encourage those who are practicing to move on. Yes, to some extent अभी we think of कृष्ण consciousness to be like an automatic process. It’s like a railway if it come on the rail track is automatically go to destination. So our concern is is to get more and more people, more and more compartments on the rail track. But then it will not automatically good, can get deraried, can get stalled.

So we need to make sure not just that we get more source of the highway to कृष्ण express way to कृष्णा. We also help them to move on ward. And for that purpose we need to appreciate different definitions of success in भक्ति. Traditionally our movement as function based on 3 definitions of success. 1 is how many books are distributed, how many devotees are made and how many temples are built or how many या how many devotees are made in कुर्सी?

You could say 4 division, how temples are built whatever basically. So how many temples are made, how many devotees made, how many books is to dod. 3? Yeah 3. So now these are all definitions in terms of outrage.

Now getting new people to come. There are a source, books are looking books and resources. Building temples are there is resource making new world is also 1 thing. But प्रभु पाल himself said that we need to boil the milk. And the problem is that boiling the milk is something which is not so easily quantifable.

And because we live in a very राजस्व culture, in the mode of passion, so we it’s it’s much easier to motivate ourselves for doing things that I have quantif results. So when we do outrage, there are quantifyable results. This much we funds we raised to build the temple or this many books will be student. But then if we sit and spend time with devotees, there is a As interaction how do you, how are you going to quantify that? So we need to certain certain definitions of success will be highlighted or memorized.

Just like say in India it is that. If you are not, if you are not an engineer, if you said parents of another idea, if child does not become an engineer or doctor, then he has become a failure. And it is like that. So certain in every every society certain definitions of success will be glamorized and others will consequently be down play. But we, as a community, need to even if there are certain definitions that are highlighted, we also need to appreciate other definitions of success.

And कृष्णा will send people who will who will appreciate who will be inspired by particular definition of success. Say for example some devotees may get a lot of inspiration in in they are more like proudfulers. They can get they can do big program and attract a lot of people. Some devotees may be more comfortable and more expert in maybe teaching something like भक्तिशास्त्र. Where the tech devotees भक्तिशास्त्र.

भक्ति we were lead deep in the शास्त्र. This many people came to the sample or this many people took initiation or whatever. So, if there are devotees in a community who are inspired by definitions of success which are centered on cultivate, Centreed on not just a cultivating you people but a cultivating exist in the words. Then they need to be encouraged. They need to be facilitated.

It’s so whatever is whatever is appreciated will naturally be adopted. अच्छा. We all need encouragement in life. So if I if I if this is appreciated, this is appreciated appreciated I want to do this. So we need to, for example if we have retreats for devote programs for devotees.

Then they need to be appreciated. Then they need to be organized, the organizers of those who take all that trouble, they need to be appreciated for that or which whichever programs nourish devotees, we have to think what what is it that will nourish devotees. And if we start it as a as a as a part of the community leaders, we can ourselves take it up or we can encourage others to take it up. And who are doing that we appreciate. That’s that’s something which each 1 of us can do.

And the more we start doing that we will find that the activities that नरेश will also be done more and more. And sometimes it’s again with care also, it’s not it’s not uniform what will be felt as care by someone. For some devotees, it might be that just give them the facility to do outreach. Give them the facility to reach out to lot of new people and that’s what makes them feel kid. They don’t come and sit and talk and tell me how things are going on.

I want to go out this books. Okay, that’s what they want. And we will be facility, ok, I have got this contact for you. You can go this book fair and do this. Oh, thank you very much.

Thank you very much. So we have to see that, what is it that devotee value what is it devotee appreciate. So it’s 1 thing is it’s a so 1 thing as I said we appreciate different deficients of success and the feficol success which are which are center on cultivation and nursing devotees we appreciate those also. Another aspect is that for each devotee there are certain things which make them feel nourished. And we can we need to understand devotees at individual level also.

कि what what would mean, what will make this notice finisheded? And then we see according to our capacity how much can we provide that? Say that in the network of instruction that Christian conscious movement is nourished by the 6 fold loving exchanges. So, those are specially hearing in confidence and letting others are speaking giving our hard in confidence, those things which are very important. And if there is, there are adequate forums for that, that itself can be very narishing.

So we need to change that our, our definition of success. That a case spending quality time with devotees just hearing them understanding them. That itself can make make us been knowledgeed. So if we broader our definition of success then the internal management can also happen more. Thank you.

Thank you for this amazing. I had 1 question. Still you have doubts and then you are like lost. So I just wanted to Ok, good question. So is having doubts a sign of intelligence?

But then if we keep here scriptures still have doubt, we say we are lost. So the भागवत ने third can’t to, in coupleestive चीज़ें सीधे सीधे. संमछयो अथर्व पर yes the character of intelligence are doubt then a statement and then it goes on. So it’s only a vice person can doubt. Say for example, you get a email which says just reply to this email and you will get 1000000 dollars.

I’ll get 1000000 dollars, right? On the internet when whenever usually whenever any product is offered free. Then usually it is we are the product who are we bought. Our time, our consciousness, our attachments that are being in time. So it requires wisdom to doubt.

So we could consider that if we are driving, Then when we are driving that is the the car has a gas has accelerator and it has a break. So the accelerator is feet and doubt is the break. So while we are driving we need to have both functional. If the car is, if I am driving and I am going off the track. If I am becomey and juerkey and am I going on the right track?

You can put a break and slow down. So, we need break when when we are hearing something and it doesn’t make sense. Oh stop stop stop what’s going on can you explain this some doubt. So doubt is only if you are hearing and hearing intelligently will be have doubts. If if we are hearing completely possibly that means something comes in from 1 year and then it just for some people at least it goes out to the other year, some people goes out to same year only.

Then we will have no doubts. So that happens so it’s even here internationally then we will have some doubts. So doubts are like breaks however the problem is not doubts. So doubt is a sign of intelligence but doubt is not the only sign of intelligence. That means if somebody just presses the break and doesn’t release it only.

There they will not get any event. So if you are on the wrong track, we are or we are going off track we need to press the break but we can’t keep pressing the break all the thing. So the doubts are a sign of intelligence but if we never put faith. So it’s interesting कृष्णा says that श्रद्धावान लभते ज्ञानं in 04:40 says it is faithful who gain knowledge. That means it’s like if I am going from a, going on a journey from darkness to light, from एक development to knowledge then I had to have some faith.

Ok, if I hear this, if I read this book, if I hear this class, I will gain some understanding. That’s why faith is like the accelerator. But some people if they just do not use their interview and they say I have faith. But then it’s like they are driving driving without any break. So faith is good but faith should be the faith should be acompanied by the use of intelligence.

The answer your question is? Thank you. Yes, we had a question. Can you please emphasize on the points that upper is more than those are seeing. Kervic consequences.

Where, so we do wrong and we get some results of that. But April is something which which takes us away from कृष्णा. Which which replaces our attraction for कृष्णा with either apapathy for कृष्णा or a virgion to कृष्णा. And say, even if somebody has done something wrong, still they’re attracted to कृष्णा. Then they will come back and they will purify themselves.

That is the import of that was 09:30 and 30 when the भगवत गीता were कृष्ण says So even if somebody does something wrong and grievancely wrong, so but if they stay determined, I am going to सर्व कृष्ण. This is a terrible thing that I did, I regret but I am going to सर्व कृष्ण. Then that connection with कृष्णा will purify them and will establish them in धर्म. But if somebody commits a प्राण to कृष्णा, प्राण to कृष्णा devoteings, then they lose their taste for कृष्णा and then they will never get purified. So then sooner or later the world’s temptation will attract them and track them down further.

So in that sense, offending devotees or offending कृष्णा is more dangerous than simply being belongs. Thank you very much for your attention and participation. It is wonderful being here in Columbus. Is that a comment or question? Sir, thank you very much.

I would have to ask you last question. You said that there are 4 class of your post or lord कृष्णा and कृष्णा devotees the whiches in कृष्णा Ok, is it that we are when we are trying to share कृष्णा conscious, we are focusing on those who are looking for कृष्णा? Not necessary looking for कृष्णा, but at least looking for something higher. It has to be there because at 1 level, we can say that we everybody needs to be pushed a little bit. But for some people you push them and they come to कृष्णा, for some people you push them and they are away from कृष्णा.

So then what do we do? How much can we push someone? So for somebody is in stress, then at that time if we are there as friends, as counselors, not necessarily ventures, as as friendly concerned human beings and that can also help them. But in general, in today’s world especially if somebody is distress, they can go to psychologist. If they need money, they can go to a bank and take a loan.

If they have curiosity then they can just Google. And now these 3 factors alone, themselves may not bring people to कृष्ण. So it’s they have distress and they have some spiritual interest. That’s why they look for something higher. They have curiosity but they also have some spiritual inclination.

So we also try to create that spiritual inclination by distribute by distribute books, by doing हरिनाम, by जगन्नाथवत यात्रा and which give people spiritual impressions. But it is true that there has to be some inclination for them, in them for some higher for searching for something higher. It like say somebody is trying to drive a car and the car is not starting. So at that time, say in India it happens, let’s say, people come around and they all push the car. So, people from outside are pushing, the person from outside is steering and navivering and then the car starts off.

And then the person moves on the journey. But suppose the people from outside are pushing and the person from inside has gone to sleep. They are not trying at all. Or worse still, people from outside are pushing and the person from inside is pressing the break. Then what can we do?

There’s not much point in pushing. Still, if somebody is not at all interested in कृष्णा, that doesn’t mean we have to reject them. But we didn’t, so we don’t need to push them further. So when we interact with people, if they are not interested in कृष्णा, if you can just give them a positive impression. I’m not a nice person.

Then maybe in future, they don’t want to explore. So we can open the door for कृष्णा for people to come to her कृष्णा. If they don’t come then they can just be courteous and and and close the interaction on a positive note. What we, what we should not do and what we unfortunately often do is that if we open the door for कृष्णा and they do not come, then we band the door in their face. You are a माया, you are going to go to healthy, this that that and then that is very ability.

These people need to have some spiritual interest. Other it’s very very difficult. Then we can try to create a ज्ञान सुकृति by giving प्रसाद, by doing हरिनाम, by giving books. It’s a more gradual process. Ok?

So thank you very much..