The bhakti journey 1 – Understanding the mind Durga puja youth camp Newtown Kolkata

Absolutely true. By rendering the most of this in terms of what he has heard from the. The absolute truth is realized is simple. By process of devotional service is a lot of possibility. But the personality part is the full fledged absolute truth.

Brahman is a struggle body balance, and Parmatma is partial representation. I said absolute is, but a partial realization. Let’s focus on this part. Today, Moli, we’ll begin our exploration for 5 sessions on the the part of the. Broadly speaking, we could call it the.

So this is various places. This has been. Broadly speaking the spiritual quest where a person seeks something beyond this physical world. Something else seems to matter more. That has been a feature of.

Not many people, but they’re having people who have sought something. And there are various metaphors used. 1 is, of course, the metaphor of a journey. When we go on a physical journey, we go through different territories. In each territory, we experienced different things.

The journey books are very popular. Cali, was travel, you had a child or something like that. So, like, that is a journey and we go through the guest territories. We encountered incredible things. In other environment, so so it could be used to refer to it can also be covering.

Recovery is more like a medical or a health recovery. So now health recovery will also be called a journey, but it’s more like a mechanical journey. Is that okay? What are the stages that one will go through? So we will look at some of these things from that metaphor also.

The metaphor of the stages of return, then we could also talk about it in terms of the development of a relationship. Because this is not especially not just the generic spiritual journey, but if it’s a teacher, what is about the relationship? So when you end up in a relationship with someone, how does that relationship then? So we will use these 3 broad metaphors. Each of these metaphors.

We focus on slightly different aspects with the journey. The focus is on the territory With the health recovery, the focus is more on inner experience. Okay. If some of the doctor is able to ask, you know, it’s a pretty recovery. Okay.

Which places will you be able to improve? Is it how are you feeling? You know, how is your back? How is your digestion? How is your headache?

What is it? So it’s more in an experience. And the relationship is also about experience. But relationship is more about understanding the other person. As we understand the other person, of course, because the other person also has to understand us.

So all these aspects are there, and each metaphor focuses on the different aspects. So now one image, we will keep coming back to in this spiritual journey. That is initially for most people. The word is big, and god, Krishna, is small. But when we grow spiritually, what happens is the world becomes big, and Krishna becomes small.

Is that correct? Now what happens? The world becomes small, and god becomes big. Now so this is the particular image we can keep in mind. And you can forget everything from this whole series of classes.

Somebody has to mute their phones. So this is an image which can help us make sense of what we are will be explored. Now in one sense, Krishna is always with when you say Krishna becomes big needs for us becomes more and more. And the world becomes small is different. I’m saying that the world becomes spots.

In this in the philosophy, the world is still. So this is the journey of spiritual group is a change in conceptions. The another important thing over here. Initially, not only is the world begin to small, but often god is the needs and the world is the ends. What that means is that we even if we had all concern ourselves with god, it is so that we can even make things better than the world.

Initially, even as introduced about me. I started sharing it by the. So one of my answers. Yeah. I believe in God.

He’s happy there. I’m happy. So, one thing that God is not. So the as a initially, God is very small. And God becomes of some relevance when I have some problem that I can’t solve.

Then God, you please help me fix this one. So in contrast, what happens is as we close the community, the world becomes the means, and god becomes the things that we okay. I may seek to add. I may seek some position. I may seek some following, but it is for Krishna.

Even if I don’t get the knowledge, what I want is to get to Krishna, to connect. To enter back to America at the 69/70. Even if the coupon had not been successful in attracting any following. Still successful in the because what the group is pleasing Krishna is more important. And so on that purpose here, we can be in the world also.

And that was blessing on. But the problem, but the goal was to be the means. So this is the journey that we should go on. For us, when you want to go to that needs, Krishna is to become bigger. So there are 9 stages in this process and described by.

Now the devotional journey, how does it happen? For many people, spirituality, it is all about uncertainty. And this is spiritual needs, whatever makes you feel good. So versus, oh, I went on the mountain break. The technique we feel very spiritual.

Okay. It might have made you feel better, and maybe thinking about nature, it reminds us of some bigger realities. And in some ways, you will call it spiritual. But for many people, spirituality is it’s like a lot of uncertainty. You know, something makes you feel good, and that’s okay.

We don’t want to feel bad necessarily, but there’s so many things which can make you feel good. Now watching TV can make you feel good. Does that make a TV spiritual? Making drugs can make you feel good. Taking drugs can make you feel good also, isn’t it?

So So you have to get a. Whatever makes you feel good, whatever makes you both float, is it? That is. Well, no. Not necessary.

You could say it makes me feel good. That is a criteria, but it is, you could say, the lowest of the criteria because many things can make us feel good, and they may take us away from spirituality also. You could say that it also makes us good. Makes us good means changes us for the better. It doesn’t just feel good, but improves us.

That’s important also. So we could say pain medication can make us feel good, but an actual curative medication will make us not just feel good, it’ll actually make us good. Isn’t it? So makes us good is another understanding of spiritual. That’s also another criteria.

But the most important it, it makes us closer to God, who is the ultimate good. That is the most important criteria, you could say. What is spiritual? It doesn’t just make us good, but it makes us closer to the ultimate good. It makes us godly.

And not just makes us closer to god in the sense that, you know, my god has told you to told me to destroy you because you are worshiping another god. No. That is just narrow mindedness. That’s not the kind of closeness that we’re talking about. It is where a person becomes completely devoted to God.

We’ll talk about what closeness to God means. But so spirituality, yes, there is certain amount of uncertainty. There is certain amount of mystery, but there also has to be certain amount of clarity. Otherwise, it can just be very vague and confusing, and then predators can come in and exploit people in the name of spirituality. So there has to be some level of clarity.

Now if you consider the spiritual journey, there is you could say some description of this in the verse that we recite. Bhagavatam 1.2. This verse 12 to 22. This is the the most quoted section from the Bhagavatam by Srila Prabhupada. Actually, this section starts a little earlier from the 6th verse, but this is the most quoted section by Shlop Prabhupada.

So especially from the 12th verse onwards, there is a description of the spiritual journey. Now this particular description has been elaborated in the Bhakti Prasamrut sindhu, where taking this as the basis, Jio Rupa Goswami talks about 9 stages of devotion. So here, the 9 stages are not explicitly mentioned, but they are pointed to. So as a field is studied more and more, understood more and more, the clarity may come more and more. So it’s like, say, somebody has paralysis and there is no cure for paralysis, and then we find a cure for paralysis.

And the patient gets cured. And as there is more and more clinical study, then study may reveal, okay, you know, this is one stage of recovery. This is next stage of recovery. This is next stage of recovery. So now what Bhakti Samuelsindra has described, that is described in further detail in another book called Madhuriyakadam Bini.

So so Madhuriyakadam Bini is a book written by Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakul. So he was a prominent commentator in our tradition. So Bhaktiya Sambalindo is by Rupa Goswami. So we will be trying to understand this inner journey as has been talked about in these three texts. And then we will also talk about some things which, you know, we can also experience in the contemporary world to see how there are rough parallels.

So the idea is Krishna says In 4.10, he says many others have gone this path. Many others have become purified. So if somebody’s trying to climb Mount Everest no. Then the first person who had to climb up, they didn’t even know what they’re going to encounter. But the first person has climbed up, and then they have written a memo at their experiences.

And somebody else who wants to climb up Mount Everest, now their experience will not be entirely the same because the weather can be different. Even the terrain can change. Sometimes there is more snow. Sometimes there’s less snow, but they have some idea of what is happening or what they are likely to encounter. So similarly for us, on the spiritual journey, this is that path that we will all experience.

Broadly speaking, each experience will be individual, and there’ll be variations, but broadly, there are patterns, and that’s what we will try to understand. So now here, there are Rupa Goswami talks about 9 stages, and So let’s try to understand these 9 stages. Now they could be envisioned as like if we had a bridge. The bridge has 9 planks. So if there’s a mountain over here, there’s a mountain over here, and then we have a 9 plank bridge.

That’s one way to look at the 9 stages. But this is not the best metaphor because it is not that we leave the previous stage entirely go to the next stage. It is more that we build on the previous stage. So it’s better to envision this more like a 9 step staircase. So when we are going to the next step, we are on the previous step.

The next step is built on the previous step. So in that sense, the previous stages are still there. So it is not that we completely give up the previous stages. We still have the previous stages, but we move forward. So the what are the 9 stages over here?

Anyone know the stages? Yes. The first stage is Shraddha. So that’s what what is mentioned in this verse. Is there.

Today it was So Shraddha, let’s see what that means. Let’s focus on the Sanskrit words, then we’ll look at the translations of those words. Shaddha is the first stage. Then anyone know the next stage? Sadhu sangha is the association of spiritually minded people.

Then bhajana kriya. Then there is, you could say, the practice of bhajan. The activities that comprise bhajan, we start doing those things. And after that, This is, for most of us, the longest stage, and it’s often a stage of great struggle. Then Nishta.

Then after that, Ruchi, then Asakti. Bhav, and then after that, Prem. So like that, these are the lines here that I talked about. So what we will be doing is we will be looking at these stages 1 by 1, and we will focus more on the first six stages. The remaining 3 are little more advanced.

We will discuss them briefly, but we’ll be focusing on the first six stages more to understand this journey. Now broadly speaking, if we consider that there are some sense some concept which seems similar over here, but let’s start. Prabhupada here in this particular word. Prabhupada translates here as the seriously inquisitive sage. So normally would translate it as faith.

And, yes, there is element of faith, but it is more like a Shanda is favorable curiosity. Hey. Maybe there is something of value over here. Let me find out. It is the spiritual stuff, this stuff.

So many people are doing it. Maybe my friend is also doing it. My friend has invited me to the role. Let me go and find out what it is. At that stage, it need not be that one has any strong faith in God per se.

That is more of openness and curiosity. Let me find out what is there. Maybe there is something of value. That’s how it starts. So say if we take the example for journey.

Journey is a mountain trek. Somebody wants to climb up a mount address. Well, maybe that’s a mountain nearby over here. Some people wanna go on a trek. So then maybe our friend says, hey.

You know, I went on that trek. Would you like to join? You know, there is an orientation meeting over here where they’re telling what the experience about the trek are. Okay. Let’s go.

You know, I’m interested. So we go there. And then there are all these trekkers. Maybe they are there is a person who’s a trek guide. There are former trekkers who have been up the mountain, and they all share their experience.

And then they say, oh, okay. This sounds interesting. Maybe I want to try it out. They say, oh, not so easy. First, you will have to make yourself fit.

You know, maybe if you are if you are not fit enough, it’s a difficult climb where you do these exercises, you get your blood pressure to this level, you get your weight down, you’ll get some muscles. You do these things by which you will actually become capable of climbing. So that’s where the doing the exercises to actually get ready for that climb. That is like bhajana kriya. So a person gets into gets into shape, and they start doing the exercise.

Okay. This part, you have to actually pull yourself up by a rope and hold on and climb up. Can you are your muscles strong enough to lift your whole body up? Can you do that for 5 minutes, 10 minutes? Now now all climbing is like a game which people play.

So how strong are you? So you have to get through the exercises to actually get ready. So that’s bhajana kriya. And then after that, is basically we may have fear of heights. And if you have fear of heights, what are you doing going on a track?

Isn’t it? Okay. Then maybe you have to deal with the fear of heights. You have to go a little bit high up and see how it goes. And gradually, whatever is going to hold us back, that starts decreasing.

And then maybe there’s a trial run. Okay. That particular mountain is 25 miles. Now here there’s a one mile trek over here. Let’s try it out.

Then when you try it out, you’re able to do it, you develop some more faith. Yeah. I can do it. This whole process, this actually works. I didn’t think I I had it in me to climb up like this, but I was able to climb up.

So then the Nishtha comes. So Nishtha and Shraddha, the words can seem similar, but whereas this is curiosity, this is more of conviction. Yes. This works. This can be done.

It it can work for me. It’s more of a personal realization. So it’s a personal realization. It’s a personalized personal conviction. Yes.

This works for me. And then as that person goes up, maybe initially they just had some curiosity. Now state are developing a fondness for nature. They get fascinated with nature. Okay.

You know, which are these trees over here? You see, each tree, each we call it greenery, but everything has a separate shade of green. And then, you know, high up you can see these birds. Maybe from there, you can see this waterfall. You start falling in love with nature.

And then initially, a person might just go because they want the sense of adventure. You know life is boring. I want to do something stimulating. So the difference between the as the ruchi and asakti is that in the ruchi, it is the activity itself that is exciting. But in asakti, it is not just what we are doing, but it is the object that we are engaging with.

1 is just the adventure of the trek. The other is love for nature itself. The 2 are very different ideas. Somebody who has love for nature may not need an adventure. They could just go out to a walk through a peaceful area and they still enjoy it.

It. Somebody, this walk is too peaceful for me. So something is so there are different stages. It’s similar, but different stages. And then Prem is a person who just falls in love with nature, falls in love with the mountains, you know.

So that’s a example of a trek. Now we could also take the example of medical recovery. So somebody comes to know, hey. You know, you had this back issue or you have some weak, persistent weakness, low immunity, or you got some disease. And I hear this doctor actually cures.

This particular treatment cures. Now initially, there might just be favorable curiosity. Let me find out. And then maybe we attend some YouTube talk or we go for some seminar. And then the doctor gives a description.

You know? Okay. This is how this particular treatment works. This is what happened. This is what happens.

And then maybe there’s some some patients who have been cured. They give their testimony. Okay. No. I had this condition, but I did this treatment, and now I’m cured.

Oh, okay. Maybe I want to find out more about this. Okay. What do I have to do? Okay.

The doctor may say, okay. Let’s stop eating these kind of foods. Do this exercise. You know, take this this medicine. So then we start the bhajana kriya.

Now when we start doing that, maybe say some other neuroticism start coming from the body. So that’s not especially in, say, homeopathy medicine, some medicines like that. Some treatments like that. Sometimes the condition becomes worse before it becomes better. So sometimes when the toxins are coming out, then all the all that is there hidden in our body, it is weakening us, but it is not visible.

It starts coming out. So that’s that slowly starts happening. And then after that, we feel fitter. We become healthier. Maybe we do some medical test, and we find that our my cholesterol has gone down.

My blood pressure has gone down. My immunity, hemoglobin has gone up. So many things. The parameter show health. Then what has happened is that’s when we get Nishtha.

This works. I’m actually cured by this. So this is the stage where now somebody may say, you know, okay. This whole treatment is a quack. There is no medical basis for this.

There is no clinical study for this. Okay. Maybe there’s no clinical study. Like, our devotees in Mumbai, during the COVID pandemic, they developed a medicine. They called it.

It helped many people. They tried a test in the dharavi slums, and they tried to get it certified with the government. All of the and the government is favorable. They have a huge department. But the mainstream medical protocols, they are made in such a way that for I rhythmic I rhythmic medicine to get it recognized is very difficult.

So even now many insurance providers medical insurance provider, health insurance, they will provide for, allopathic treatment health insurance, but they don’t provide any support for aerobic treatment because the medical protocols are made in a particular way. So now the doctor the mainstream medical community may say this this medicine doesn’t work, but it has worked for me. I have seen myself transformed. So even if somebody gives argument saying this doesn’t work, at that stage, those arguments don’t work on us. Isn’t it?

So this is the stage where sometimes we may hear somebody criticizing Krishna consciousness, somebody saying this is wrong, that is wrong, that is wrong. Okay. Maybe there is some truth to that, but this process has worked for me. At the stage of Nishtha, the conviction that comes from our personal experience is far stronger than any argument based on some logic or some reasoning or this or that. So that is Nishta.

And then gradually, as we keep moving forward. No. Then we may say it’s not just that my intangible parameters are so my health is better. Maybe I can lift weights. I can run faster.

I can I don’t get breathless when I climb up stairs? You know, we start not only being able to do physical activity, but we start enjoying doing physical activity. We don’t feel it a burden. We don’t feel it exhausting. That’s where the recovery is becoming more and more positive.

So that’s the the health metaphor over there. Now the relationship metaphor, I’ll talk about it a little later. But just a quick point over here that with respect to the relationship metaphor, See, there is curiosity. K. Now if you wanna make a friend or now there’s people want to date, whatever it is.

If you wanna have a relationship first, you have some curiosity. Okay. What is this person like? You know, even if you wanna make some devoted friend among the devoted community, there’s no romantic relationship at all. But still, okay.

I heard about this person. Let me just spend some time with them. There’s some curiosity. And from that curiosity, we okay. You know, let’s spend some time together.

Let’s take a let’s take lunch together. Let’s do some activities together. We spend time. We learn more about each other. Then I may have some conceptions about you.

You may have some conceptions about me. As we talk well, as we spend time together doing the activities, then the conceptions are addressed. Sometimes, we think, okay. You know, this person like this, but, actually, they’re not really like that. And then goes, does whatever misconception or conception, whatever notions we have, then Nishtaal.

I can count on this person. This person is trustworthy. Now it’s interesting. Trust and love, they’re not the same thing. Nishta and Prema.

They’re 2 different things. If we have to do a surgery, we trust the doctor. But do we love the doctor? No. He said it.

We were ready to entrust our life, and that trust is more based on the medical competence. Love is more about the character, the personality, the more the central of the person of who they are. So like that, there are many people who may have trust in God, but that does not necessarily mean they have love for God. So the 2 are very significantly different. Of course, trust and love is related.

We cannot trust someone whom we hate, obviously, but we may dislike someone, and still we can trust that person, you know. I know I don’t like this doctor as a person. They’re a little disagreeable, little rude, but I know this doctor is good in terms of medical expertise. So sometimes there are some quirky doctors. Now they are foul mounted, foul tempered, but they are so good that people still go there.

So I may trust the doctor, but I didn’t really like you. It’s a curious situation, but, yes, somebody will say I I trust you, but I don’t like you. Is that a compliment or a criticism? But there’s a there’s a difference between trust and love. So actually, in one sense, it is easier to trust God than to love God.

Loving Krishna is a far, far more advanced stage. Trust is more about, at least in this context, it’s you can do something good for me. That you have the capacity, you can do something good for me. So we may trust our attorney that, okay, there’s this property dispute. You will get this property for me.

But love is more like not you can do, you are good for me. Not just good for me. You are the best for me. It’s not what you can do. You as a person are the best for me.

That’s a significantly different conception. That’s why Prema is considered much higher than Nishtha over here. So there’s 3 metaphors I mentioned about the spiritual journey, a trek, medical recovery, and a relationship. So now let’s focus for today on the idea of Shraddha. And as I said Shraddha, there are many different meanings of this word, and there are meanings at different levels.

And if we consider in this particular metaphor, Shraddha is just curiosity. Curiosity is positive curiosity. Like, somebody takes up a book for reading, They may have no intention to read the book fully, but even if you’re picking up the book, maybe there’s something worthwhile in this. Isn’t it? So that is the kind of Shraddha.

At this stage, it is simply positive curiosity or favorable curiosity. Now can there be unfavorable curiosity? Well, yeah, there can be also. Isn’t it? No?

This book is poisonous. You know, I wanna find out. I don’t want I wanna ban this book. So I’m reading this book, then I can find faults in it, and then I’ll ban the book or I’ll burn the book. So there can be unfavorable curiosity.

You know, if a parent has a feeling that, you know, this particular my child is a friend with this particular child, and this child is a bad influence for my child. Then the parent may spend some time with the child, but that is unfavorable curiosity. You wanna find out maybe reasons why my child should not be spending the time with this child, and how can I find reason that I can that will make sense to my child also so that I can tell my child? So there can be unfavorable curiosity also, but here it is favorable curiosity. Maybe there is something worth exploring over here.

So that is Shraddha. And this is a fundamental difference in the various traditions of the world. That broadly speaking, the religious traditions of the world can be categorized into 2, dharmic and Abrahamic. Now this is not necessarily a watertight categorization, but the dharmic traditions are what we call as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity. Not Christianity.

Sikhism. They are focused more on principles. Like, in Buddhism also, they they don’t use Dhamma. Dhammapada is one of their sacred books. So they focus they’re more principle centered.

Whereas, the principle are there in Christianity also, but they are more more history centered. Okay. This particular person came and this particular person was the savior. Whether it is Moses in Judaism, whether it is Jesus in Christianity, whether it is Mohammed in Islam. So these are more principle centered.

Dharma is a principle, and these are more principle centered. These are more history centered. It’s a broad separation, and there are similarities, no doubt. But specifically, these traditions begin with a call for faith. Faith is very, very important in these traditions.

Now because the faith is required for all traditions, and that is true to some extent. But in the dharmic traditions, it is a call for curiosity. So although the word Shanda use is similar and Shanda is sometimes translated in English as faith, it’s not exactly the same. At least this understanding of Shasta Shanda. It is not that believe that there was God.

See, many Christians may start their outrageous, believe that Jesus died for your sins. Not all Christians may start like that. But that is, like, a very central tenet that Jesus came and died for your sins. And you accept that Jesus died for you, that you will be freed from your sins. That is the idea of Christianity.

Now this is not a comparison or even a criticism of Christianity. This is just a emphasis on what is the starting point. It is not It’s curiosity. Maybe there is something of value out there. So that curiosity is what begins the spiritual journey.

You could say curiosity involves an element of faith, but it is not that it the faith is not the central thing. It is okay. I’m gonna learn. So now how does this this starting level of Shraddha come about? Now can this Shaddha be translated as faith?

Of course, it can be translated. But and it is offer Shaddha frequently in the world is faith for it. But faith itself can have very different implications. Here the implication is more not believe that there is God and God is good for you. Oh, that could be true, but right now, just be curious.

Be open minded. See explore if there is something more to life. So now how does this straddha come about? That initial curiosity. So Ramanacharya in his Shri Bhashya commentary on the Vedana Sutra, there’s the first sutra has a very elaborate commentary and there are sub commentaries by subsequent acharyas also in that tradition.

There are almost 100 pages of exposition that how does this Brahmajigyanasa come about? For many people, it sometimes just doesn’t come. I have a friend in Russia. He was telling me once he was giving a class, and he said, you are not your body. And one person raised his hand.

He said, yes. If I’m not my body, then whose body am I? So the idea that we have an identity separate from the body, That is just not comprehensible. Am I someone else’s body? What is going on?

So for some people, you may also inquire you may also see if you try to share spirituality with some people. It just doesn’t seem to make any sense to them. So some people, it will make sense, but they turn away from it. But for some people, it just doesn’t make any sense. So this this that openness, that curiosity, how does that come about?

So at one level, we can say it’s a mystery, but there are various factors. 1 is, of course, past life actions. So that Shanda can come from so what believe it or not. Chakravarti Bharti talks about this is Swabha vikki. Swabha vikki means that the person has that swabha from a previous life.

So if somebody has explored some spirituality previously, they have been on the spiritual journey. If they had completed it, they would not be in this world at all. They didn’t complete it, so they were in some way like yoga yoga from the previous life. They had done something in the past, and that’s how they have some interest now. And we will find that there are people like this.

It’s yeah. There’s one disciple. He, you know, he grew up in 19 sixties America. And 19 sixties America was a very interesting phase in, human history for various reasons. There, it’s it’s in relatively recent human history that was the first generation that had ready made prosperity, that you didn’t really have to work.

Of course, there have been phases in human even history when there is prosperity. When I’m talking about literally modern times, the when the Europeans went to America, there are many generations when they had to fight. Of course, they did brutalities over there, but they fought. The wilder wild frontiers were there. There are many movies made about these Americans going exploring the frontiers.

But then after the 2nd world war, America had relatively progressed. Geopolitically, it had become a formidable power. It had become wealthy. So these young people, they already had the basics of life. What the previous generation that worked hard for or dreamt about, oh, I should have my own house.

I should have my own family. My kids should go to a good school. We should not have any financial worries. We should live in a safe locality. What many people across the world even now struggle for, that is a generation that had it all, basically.

And yet people were unhappy, profoundly, existentially dissatisfied. So this is Ravindra Suruprabhu. He is that, you know, when he first came to, Hare Krishna talk, somehow he just came over there. His friend said, okay. There’s some nice food over there.

So some nice food can be the source of. It is actually. But from my also, you can go toward. But, anyway, he heard the class, and the devotee was saying, this world is a place of misery. Now for most people when we they hear this, why are you being so pessimistic?

Isn’t that the most common response? Don’t be so pessimistic. But his response was, at last someone is speaking the truth. You know? He said that he despite all the comforts, he had had a difficult childhood, and he says this and he said whoever I’ve seen, nobody seems to be happy in life.

Everybody’s acting as if they’re happy. Everybody’s acting as if they get get this or that, it will make them happy. They’re not happy. So now this conviction to get, the first time you hear that, that signify there’s some level of spiritual growth already there. So, basically, that there is something beyond this visible glamorous world.

So it requires some some level of spiritual inclusion to be able to grasp that. So some people may have it swabha vikki. Just from their previous life. Now that shraddha, sometimes it can come also from the present life association. Now that means you can say that Shaddha does the Shaddha come from Sadhu Sangha?

Well, Sadhu Sangha is the next stage, but it is that you you can use the word sadhu in different senses. Like Prabhupa is like somebody might not be a devotee, but they may say that, hey. I went to the Discon Temple. You know? It is a nice place.

Better check it out. And that person may not become a devotee. Like, the person who brought Prabhupada to is Guru Maharaj, that person didn’t become a devotee. But that person did bring Prabhupada to Guru Maharaj. So it is sometimes the kind of people around us.

It may be our parents have told us, you know, say many Indians when they go to America, their parents tell them, you know, okay. You should go to the find some temple over there and go to the temple regularly. Don’t forget your culture completely. Don’t forget your roots. They’re concerned about that.

So I say, okay. Let me find out a temple over there. I might just go to please my parents. But then they find a youth group over there, and they get interested in that. So it is our present life association also.

But, ultimately, it is a mystery. There is a element that in the spiritual awakening so this you can say in the stage of spiritual awakening. Now it is a continuous state, as Bhakti Rudhakur says. It’s a gradual incremental process, but in that spiritual awakening, there is a part that is rational, and there is a part that is mystical. So rational means you can say, okay.

You know, I went to that particular class, and I’m the class made sense. That’s why I decided to go more for further ahead. And there is truth to that. But there might be some other friend of us who might just feel as logical as we are. That person also comes to the class, but that person doesn’t take it.

So there has to be something that calls something deep within our heart, something which awakens, resonates. And so so there is a mystical element to it. So this is the what mister Chakravarthy talks about as a krupa over there. So that mystical element of mercy or whatever we want to say, that is not in our control. But to whatever extent it is there for us, you know, we can ask ourselves explore what is it that triggered my curiosity.

We say, just a friend invited me to come. That’s why I came for a program, and then I liked it over, so I came for a camp. And then I came. Camp was where it was really transformative for me. K.

Whatever it is. So that’s the stage of Shraddha. So from the Shraddha, the sadhu sangha starts happening. So when we feel this is maybe there’s something of value over here, Then we start exploring what is going on over here. What are these people actually doing?

So how many of you have questions at this particular point? I’m trying to decide. Should we have about half an hour more? So either we can have questions for half an hour or I’ll complete Sadu sangha, and then we can have questions for about 15 minutes. 1, 2.

Okay. 3. Now you don’t have to raise your hands by force. Okay. Fine.

So we’ll I’ll just try to take, talk about Sadu sangha briefly. If you’re not able to complete, then we will continue Sadu sangha tomorrow also. K. So now I said that it is not that we give up shraddha to go to Sadhu Sangha. It’s like a step.

We build on that. Which Radha, we come to Sadhu Sangha. Okay. Maybe these people have something of value. Now when we use the word sadhusanga, it can be talked about at various levels, and we can talk about a very exalted level, like.

That just a movement of association of a devotee can lead to all perfection. And there is truth to that. No doubt. That is the potency of associating of devotees. But here, we are focusing on sadhu sangha specifically in terms of this journey.

So how does spiritual association contribute to our spiritual growth? So there are many ways, but if we consider, I’ll focus on 3 distant aspects of spiritual association. That through association, In general, when we are going to explore something, it is that so why do people do anything? That there is a lot of, study of human behavior nowadays. It’s always been there, but now this human behavior is a study as a part of psychology for the purpose of marketing.

You know, many companies are interested. What will make a person buy something? What will make a person not buy something? So they they want to basically control people’s behavior, and that’s why they try to figure out what it is that triggers people’s behavior. So now from that perspective, there are various factors that can trigger a person’s behavior.

So gen I’ll talk about it from 3 different perspectives. If we consider desires, desires are generally thought to be linear. Linear means what? See, I am here and some object is here. So this is a sense object.

So linear. When I see an object, when I perceive an object, I get the desire for that. And our scriptures are filled with that. Saw a particular scene that triggered a desire. Vishwamitramuni heard just the jingling of an ankle bell, and that triggered desire.

So the see means generally sees of a user metaphor for any sense contact. So, generally, we think of desires as linear, and that is true. No doubt. But the important thing is desires are not just linear. They can also be the technical psychology call is mimetic Mimetic.

But simpler word would be triangular. Now you have have you heard this word called memes? There are social media memes. Like, there are genes. There are memes.

Memes are there’s ideas that replicate very fast. Like, this has become a meme on social media. It keeps growing. So, anyway, that’s that’s psychological theory. I won’t get into that.

But triangular desires means what? Say, if I am here and there is a object here. Now when I encounter that object, I may or may not desire that object. But if there is someone else who has a strong desire for that object and I have interest, this person has the desire, and I have some appreciation, some trust, some respect for this person, then seeing that person desiring that object or enjoying that object will trigger my desire. This is often the logic for companies seeking endorsements.

Isn’t it? That when some new phone comes up, that if Apple makes a big advertisement, oh, our latest smartphone is our best phone. Okay. That’s your phone. That’s what you’re always going to say.

But then maybe they get some Bollywood they get some Bollywood actor, they get some cricketer, they get some influencer. This is the best phone that I’ve ever used. Oh, hey. I wanna buy this phone. That’s endorsements.

So, basically, desires are often triangularly triggered. When I had first gone to Australia in 2014, so one devotee had invited me to their house for lunch. And then they said, for dessert, we’ve got baklava. Anyone of you know what is baklava? Baklava.

Okay. All of you are wonderfully ignorant. Anyway, I was I was I also didn’t know what is baklava. Baklava is basically an Arabic sweet. Now to the Indian ear, baklava.

The name doesn’t the name itself doesn’t sound very sweet. So I said, maybe later. And there’s another devotee with me who had also come for lunch. He’s a local Australian devotee, and he said, yeah, I would like to have. So then I was talking with the host and the baklava kid, and this devotee was eating baklava.

He’s closing his eyes and relishing it. And I saw him. Can I also have 1? So there was no linear desire, but there was triangular desire. So quite often, desires are triggered in a triangular means.

And there’s one more significant difference over here that desires often the linear desires are triggered for rajasikthics. But for sattvic things, things in Sattva, often we need triangular desires. The you know, if somebody’s passing by a hotel or somebody’s walking by a clothes shop and there is some fashionable manic queen, then, you know, we just see that’s so attractive. I want to eat this. I want to dress in this.

I want to buy these clothes. So often rajasik objects, the direct desire often gets stimulated. But in how many people, for example, see a Bhagavad Gita and say, oh, I want to read the Bhagavad Gita. You know, we distribute Bhagavad Gita as it is, and people keep Bhagavad Gita as it is. Isn’t it?

Unfortunately, many people, they treat the Bhagavad Gita like a object of religious piety. Like, I have something on my altar. I have d t on my altar. I have bhagavad gita also on my altar. I’ll offer a flower every day, but I’ll not offer my buddhi.

So the idea is but if we meet some devotees, we meet some friend who is really the bhagavad gita, who is alive with the bhagavad gita, who is getting so many insights. So he’s so excited about it. Okay. What is there in this book? I want to know more about the book.

So quite often, the desires for sattvic or spiritual objects, they are not triggered linearly. A desire for prasad may be triggered, and that’s fine. But, you know, it’s it’s like, say, even if you see some devotees dancing in kirtan, you may see them dancing in kirtan, and maybe you see it on TV, some festival. You say, okay. These are interesting people.

But we may not ask or get a desire to dance. But if we actually come to a kirtan and we see some friend, that friend is dancing, we say, what do people think of me? What have I become a religious lunatic now? But then they pull us in, and then we may start dancing. So what happens is the dancing is normal, but religious dancing is still seen a little weird by some people.

So it is quite often, the dance the spiritual desires are triggered in association. So one aspect of how association affects is that through association, there is the triangularity of desire that is stabbed. So now all of you have come over here, and now some of you may be feeling tired. Some of you may be see may feel you’re feeling sleepy. Maybe you’ve taken a meal and you’re feeling heavy.

But if you see everyone is attentively hearing the class, the person next to you is hearing, maybe the person next to you is making some notes, Then what happens is, okay, maybe I should also maybe there’s something interesting over here. Generally, with respect to question answers, now very few people ask the first question. But if one person asks a question, and then you find, okay, the speaker use a reasonable answer, the speaker is very heavy and gives a dismissive answer. Thank god I was not the first person. But what happens is if we see others asking questions, then we also get the desire to ask questions.

We feel maybe I feel safe. Maybe I can ask a question also over here. But the idea is, generally, sattvic desires are triggered in association. So the triangularity of desires is tapped by association. So that’s one way.

So here and association has many glories. And now we’re talking about the generic glory of association I described in Shastra. I’m talking about how association works in this stage. What comes after association is? Sadhu sangha is bhajana kriya.

So we are talking about how sadhu sangha will take us or can take us from shraddha to bhajana kriya. Okay. Why are these people having this, bag handy hanging around their head? What do they do with it? Oh, they chant.

Why do they chant? And you see everybody chanting, and maybe we’ll also try to chant. Let me see what is there in it. So that’s how as example of sadhu sangha taking us from that curiosity to some personal practice. Bhajana kriya.

So we will talk more about bhajana kriya in tomorrow’s session. This is one way. That is we get our desires stimulated in association. Our desires get activated. The activation or the stimulation of desires that arises in association.

And now that that is a very significant part. Now apart from that, association can also give us intellectual comprehension. It can give us intellectual understanding. So why? Because we can ask questions that okay.

Why do people do all these things? So one is just seeing others doing things we get we get the desire. Seeing people do it, but, specifically, it is an association. It depends on how we are entering the association and how their association also welcomes us. That can we ask questions?

This is something which Prabhupada emphasized a lot. He said, we don’t want our temples to be just places of worship. We want our place temples to be places of higher learning. We want temples to be like universities. So, you know, from say a material perspective, you could say that this temple currently is not very impressive.

Of course, it will manifest, but, you know, how many temples in India can say that there are so many young people who come there to hear philosophy? No. Probably there are less than a dozen temples like that in India, isn’t it? So there are there are many people who may come for worship, but what Prabhupala said is okay. This should be a place for education.

So this is one of the key things. It is an association that we get understanding. We get comprehension. And that understanding, comprehension, clarity, that is important. Otherwise, it is like, oh, these people do this thing nice.

You do this thing then you go away. Like, many people have priests. You know, okay. I got a wedding ceremony. I want a child, or I have this thing in my shoe.

This I want to do the shanti for this particular element. So you go to priest. You call the priest. You do some rituals. Some people ask some questions.

Okay. What does the ritual mean? What does that ritual mean? But most people don’t care for it. Because they say, okay.

That is your business. You do it. I just want my problem to be solved. Isn’t it? So there is there is not much curiosity that is triggered over there.

That’s why many of our devotees, when they do some priestly activities, they always many of them, they try to ensure that they give some at least some brief talk over there. It may not be general lecture on philosophy, but at least explaining what is being done over there. And many people appreciate that. Say that we never knew the priest like this also. So that’s then, okay, if somebody’s doing a wedding ceremony.

And then, okay, what does the what does this mantra mean? What does this ritual mean? You know, that time people’s some people are just they wanna have fun after the get the rituals over. But there are people who are still some amount of gravitas is there. They wanna know what is going on.

So the idea is that sometimes if the association has happening with a foundation of curiosity see, the curiosity is not there, then what happens is even if the sadhus try to give instruction, people not be interested. Like, many temples in India sorry. I mean, in India and this is happening outside also, that for many Indians, when they go abroad, initially, they wanna enjoy in the west. But after that, the West is too alien. It, like, it’s just too strange, too too much culturally unfamiliar, and they want something which is culturally comfortable.

So they come to the temples, and there are temples in which if you have a initially, what happens is that there was one place I had gone in Australia. That one day, Odi had started a new center over there. It’s not official. But it’s a place where there are lot of Indians living. So what had happened was there was, like, Aarti, and for Aarti, the whole temple hall was full.

And then my class started, and it, like when I sat down for the class and and then started because it’s still like going on. People were looking here and there. I finished the prayers, and, like, only 10% of the people were there. I look at the devotee the devotee of the organ. No.

They’re not afraid of you. Don’t worry. So he said people had no interest. People had interest in the Aarti, the cultural aspect, but the classes are not very interesting. People don’t have the conception of classes.

Then there is, okay. I just wanna feel good, be a part of something. People just don’t have the interest in hearing. They don’t even have the habit of hearing. They don’t even have the most people come to the temple.

You remember, god is the means, and the world is the ends. So most people don’t come to a temple to hear about God. They want God to hear about them. Isn’t it? God, I have this problem.

I have this problem. I have this problem. Don’t you know how big problems I have? When are you going to solve it? Please do something now.

So people are not interested in God. So then even if the opportunity for sadhu sangha is there, if the curiosity is not there, the sadhu sangha will not benefit from it. But it is association that that comprehension can come. That comprehension oh, okay. This is how it makes sense.

And so, basically, if there is hearing and before hearing, there is some seeking. And the person doesn’t have to be like a spiritual seeker out, but some curiosity has to be there. So curiosity, there is hearing and then there is understanding. And the last aspect is that association also provides us an environment and ambiance. We need a setting in which we can practice.

Let’s say, if you come to a youth program and you like it, you like the chanting. But after that, you go back to the hostel and nobody there is interested in spirituality, nobody is interested in chanting. He feel I’ll be like the odd person out over here. You know, once it happened in one one city or one hostel, you know, there were 2 boys who had come from 2 different places, and both of them had been introduced to Bhakti before, but they didn’t know the they didn’t know that they had been introduced that the other person was introduced to Bhakti. So what happened was that both of them felt, you know, what is very important to think of me if I’m a giant?

So both of them would wake up in the morning, and under their blanket, covering, they would chant. And both of them was hoping that the other other person is not noticing what I’m doing. So both of them were pretending as if, you know, I’m sitting and sleeping. And then once this the the one of them, he got up and he wanted to go out. He wanted to use the washroom.

So he went out, and his other devotee started chanting a little louder, but he’s chanting very softly. And then he went there, but the place was crowded, so he came back quickly. And he came back, and he just opened the door, and he heard this dude dancing. He said, what are you doing? Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. No. Tell me.

What are you doing? Then this devotee fell a little sheepish, You’re a little embarrassed. Actually, I chant. Oh, you? I also chant.

So the idea is sometimes if we don’t have association, we don’t feel we have the environment to do what we want to do. So association can provide us a supportive environment. If we have a youth center near our temple where near our college where we can have supportive support association that provides a supportive environment. That’s wonderful. But even if we don’t have that, we might have 1 or 2 friends who come together.

Nowadays, devotees can chant online together, or, you know, at least sometime in a week, we can come and stay in the youth center, whatever. Association provides us the environment. And without that environment, it is going to be very difficult to sustain the bhajuna kriya. So the way I I talk about this association, I said, it is like if I consider there is Shraddha. Now Shraddha is important.

But from Shraddha, if somebody has to go to bhajana kriya, that is the next step. And now this is sadhu sangha. Now as I said, we are talking about sadhu sangha only in a very limited sense. Sadhu sangha is required throughout the stages of bhakti. It’s an integral part.

Even pure devotees want to associate with each other. Is described. Even great devotees, they delight in talking about Krishna. But we are talking about sadhu sangha here specifically as it brings about this transformation from curiosity to, you could say, commitment. That I commit myself to chant the holy names.

I commit myself to wake up in the morning. From curiosity to commitment, this journey, how does it bring about? So I talk about these three things. There is the ace acronym, the activation of desires by the triangularity of desires. There is the comprehension of the concepts, the comprehension of the practices.

We can ask questions. And there is the environment. So when we have these three things, when association provides us these things, so this is more like, see, we have an emotional side, we have a rational side, and we have a social side. So I said that this study happens nowadays about how people buy things. So we have an emotional side.

Oh, I feel like doing this. That’s that the desires are activated. We have a rational side. Hey. This seems good.

This makes sense. And then we have a social side. So, generally, this emotional, rational, and social side are taken care of, then people feel confident about doing something. It feels good. It makes sense, and others are also doing it.

So let me do it also. So this is how the sadhu sangha takes us toward bhajana kriya. So I’ll summarize what we discussed today. So I discussed mainly 5 points over here. The first point was about spiritual growth.

Spiritual growth happens initially for us. The world is very big and God is small. But what happens? The world becomes small and God becomes big. That is the essence of spiritual growth.

So we will talk about 3 metaphors, journey in the form of a trek and recovery of health and a relationship. So I discussed various aspects. So in each of these aspects, we discussed some aspects. So for example, from the journey perspective, we discussed about how these 9 stages could work. That how curiosity okay.

What are these people going to do? So talking about means becoming fit so that we can do the activity, then we fall in love with nature. So like that, with respect to the recovery aspect, we discussed that we get the personal conviction even if somebody says, oh, this is this. There are those studies proving this and this or that. So our our becomes personal conviction.

So in each of these metaphors, I focus on particular aspects. And let’s not elaborate on that. You’ll come too much of a detailed summary, but we discussed these 3 metaphors. Then after that, I focused on as one stage. Is basically favorable curiosity, And it has a rational aspect to it.

How is that curiosity coming out? The rational could be from the past life, we have some inclinations, or from the present life, we have some associations, some inspiration. And there is a mystical side to it. How exactly it happens in people, we can’t know. And then I talked about sadhu sangha.

So I’m reducing this 5 points to 3 points, basically. So in the sadhu sangha, we sadhu sangha has many glories, but we focus specifically on how sadhu sangha can actually take us from curiosity, ashaddha, to commitment. I will do this. What what do you people do to I will do this? So we discussed about the ace acronym that it gives activation of desires happens through association.

Then c was comprehension. We start understanding things, start making rational sense to us. And then also, there’s an environment. And in this way, we become inspired to go on the spiritual journey. So thank you very much.

Are there any questions or comments? Where is the mic? Okay. You can ask. I’ll repeat the question.

Do we have a mic? Okay. You can speak otherwise. But I am little bit, curious about to know that in Bhakti rasamriri Sindhu, that section, jiva Goswami comments, Shraddha has, firm faith in Shastra. How to reconcile both of this?

That’s definitely true. See, I am explaining this from the perspective of our lewd experience. Rupa Goswami, jiva Goswami, they are writing books at a particular time for a particular audience. If you see, at the time when, say appeared. So they say, oh, the world was so degraded at that time.

People were so fallen. Now what is the what is their perspective? What is fallen people? Fallen people is oh, you know, people chant the names of Vishnu only once a year or where there’s an eclipse. People read the Bhagavatam, but there is no bhakti in their Bhagavatam.

People go to temples, but they only worship Shasti and other goddess, and they don’t worship Krishna. So now we say, if I’m going to a country where people read Bhagavatam without Bhakti, people read Bhagavatam. That’s very impressive, isn’t it? So if you consider the concept of degradation at that time, it at least the initial followers of Mahaprabhu, they had a very clear specific mission. See, you could say that was the time when Islamic Islamic ruler in India was, quite bad.

Nawab Hussain Shah was no tolerant ruler. Akbar was there. Akbar came a little later when the Goswamis were there, but soon after, Akbar Aurangzeb came and he was terrible. Babar was, no tolerant ruler. So they could have talked about how terrible the situation was.

So but they had a particular focus at that particular time. See, Mahaprabhu is traveling all over India, but it’s like if somebody comes from a more nationalistic kind of background, you know, now that that nationalism is becoming more awakened after the building of the Ram temple, Then all the atrocities that were done against, the Sanatana Dharma during the phase of Islamic rule, that is becoming more and more prominent in Indian consciousness now. But the way Mahaprabhu’s tours are described, he goes to North India, he goes to South India, like, in almost at least a decade of travel, there are only 2 encounters with Muslims. So, like, the Muslims are almost like a background presence where some incidentally, there is some interaction. Now was that the reality?

Well, that was Mahaprabhu’s lived reality. So, I don’t want to go into how exactly to reconcile. You can go into that if somebody had that interest. How what are the description of reality, and what are the Islamic political reality. So, but simply speaking, Muslims, you know, they they were some of them were very intolerant, and they just destroyed temples at will.

But many of them, they decided to settle in India. And they realized that these people are too many to all be killed or converted. So many times they would just let them do what they want as long as they pay some extra taxes and they are subordinate to us. So that’s how much of dharma still went on, although big temples suffered. And that’s why Mahaprabhu did not ask any of his followers to build temples.

In Vrindavan, he said recover the places and build temples over there. That was because, you know, the the those swamis very experienced in dealing with Muslims. But in Mayapur, he did not tell anyone to build any temples. So there is a way to reconcile that, but my point is they’re talking in a particular context over there. So, yes, Shraddha.

Can it refer to a faith in Shastra? Of course. But if you see how Prabhupada explained Shastra sorry. How Prabhupada explained Shanta in his classes. The pro what Prabhupada says, oh, you know the Hare Krishna chanting on the street.

What are they doing? What are these people doing? So Prabhupad explained shasraddha many times in terms of favorable curiosity. So at that time, it is like faith in shraddha was a given. It is you see, when we have the Bhagavad Gita course, actually or no.

We do the device course, but we do a Bhagavad Gita course also in temples. We actually don’t teach the Bhagavad Gita. It’s our Bhagavad Gita course is a pre Bhagavad Gita course, Because the Bhagavad Gita doesn’t really have to go about establishing the existence of God or the existence of karma. People need that today, isn’t it? So we cannot If we start taking Shraddha as firm faith in Shastra, then if that is the beginning stage for spiritual life, how many people have that?

Isn’t it? So most people will be unqualified to even start the spiritual journey, Isn’t it? So it’s at that point, at that time, it was not just India. In the West also, Bible was accepted as authority. In the Middle East, Quran was accepted as authority.

The times were like that, that in scripture was accepted as a source of authority. So you could say at that those times, Shaddha would mean okay. Shasta, I have faith in scripture, but then the curiosity, what is the actual teaching of scripture? For that, say, if you see Indian philosophy apart from Buddhism, Jainism, Charvakism, all of them accepted the Vedas as a source of authority, and different thinkers had fierce debates about what was the meaning of the Vedas. The 6 systems of philosophy, nayam, imamsa, vaiseshi, all of these, they all accept the authority of the Vedas, but they fiercely debate what do the Vedas mean, what do the Vedas actually teach.

So in that sense, in that context, curiosity would mean, yes, I accept Shastra, the authority, but what is the meaning of Shastra? What is the actual teaching of Shastra? But in our context, curiosity would mean that, okay, is there something out there which is a reality? Okay? Any other questions?

Hi, Krishna Prabhu. Like in the medical recovery metaphor, you explained that suppose we have a disease and go to doctor and he gives us prescribed medicines and toxins come out. So you compare that toxins, to the, then like, the we have. And sometimes, it may also, burn us from inside. So how to tolerate that, like, transcending from stage to stage, the which are coming out?

Well, I appreciate your for. Can we wait till we come to those classes? Yes. Because we are going to have full classes on the topic. Thank you.

We need some intellectual understanding that how the process is working. So if the doctor prepares us, you are going to go through this phase. A doctor can help us get some pain medication or whatever. Doctor helps us prepare. That’s how we can also be helped to people.

We’ll talk about it more. Okay, ma’am. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions?

Keep behind. Hey, Krishna. Can you relax? You can sit down. Prabhu, I have one courage about the culture.

God is 1 in the world. Yeah. Feel God is more than in the world about different different culture. So please give me these answers of this. So if god is 1, why there are different cultures in the world?

Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. God you feel god is more than in the world in another culture.

No. God you can sit down. Thank you. See, Bhakti Vinod Thakur talks about it in Chaitanya, Chaitanya, that while God is 1, cultures themselves evolve according time, place, circumstance. So what do you mean by culture?

Culture could mean dress. Now different places, different dresses are more comfortable to wear, isn’t it? So some places very hot. So then particular kind of dresses are more comfortable. Some places are very cold.

So now the dhoti is not very comfortable to wear in very cold places. You can wear that, but you have some inner inner wear and something like that to protect yourself. So, basically, different places, there are different clothes. They’re comfortable. So if you consider culture, then that it was according to the clothes evolved according to that.

Food also is different. What is available over there? What is tasty over there? What is preparerable over there? So so there are historical, geographical, basically, local factors which determine culture to some extent.

Now, of course, because of globalization, there are certain aspects of culture just spreading all over the world. But even then, there are many things which are particular to that particular place. And when people travel you know, people say if somebody goes from America to Italy, they don’t go there to eat in Big Mac. McDonald’s is there in America also. McDonald’s is in Italy also.

But they when they go there, is there some Italian dishes? Is there some Italian ambiance? So cultures evolve differently at different places. They call it various factors. And god is big enough to manifest himself through whatever cultures have evolved at whatever places.

So based on that, the specific revelations may be tailor made. So certain things may be more emphasized in particular places. Certain things may be less emphasized. So god is 1, but god reaches out to different people according to where they are at. So if we consider a mountain, so the top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness.

The bottom of the mountain is material consciousness. So now we can go up the mountain from one path. We can go it from up another path. We can go it go up by 3rd path. We can go up by a 4th path.

The key point is we should go up the mountain. So now some people say all paths will take you up the mountain. Well, not necessarily. Some paths may take you down into a valley also, isn’t it? Some paths may just take you round and round the mountain, isn’t it?

So we can’t say everything that is taught in every culture will take people to God. That’s definitely not true. So every culture has some aspects to it, which are more satvik, which are more reflective, which are more conducive of developing higher values. So within different cultures, there can be parts by which people can go to God. But there within each culture, there could also be things which take people away from God.

So we have to, look at the particular culture and within that see what is pro devotional and what is anti devotional. Okay. That’s one question over there. Yeah. Hare Krishna, Pravoji Ganal Pranam.

Pravoji, I have 2 questions, somewhat related to this discussion. So so first is that, Prabhuji, like like, we see, when, lord Chaitanya Prabhu, he has appeared here 500 years ago. So, so he was distributing Krishna Prima so very much, abundantly, like, compared to what we are experiencing or, like, just before that. So what is the, I mean, factor means well, like, which is deciding that, that who is that much fortunate to get that, that mercy and who is, like in satya yoga, we see that, like, people who show, like, meditate for so many years and still they don’t get. So what is the factor, Roji?

This is my first question. So So what is the factor that determines whether some people receive mercy and others don’t? Well, it is not that Krishna is withholding mercy from anyone. Krishna is giving mercy. Now when people will say it is that in the satyuga people would meditate for a long time, but that doesn’t mean that if they meditate for a long time, they’re suffering in the meditation.

It was if people are in a sattvic disposition that even meditation is enjoyable for them. See if somebody is very raja sick then meditating is like a big tapasya. I wanna do something. How long can I just sit and utter a mantra? But if somebody is sattvic, they start enjoying the meditation also.

So when they say that they would have to meditate for a long time to attain God, it was not that they will suffer for that much time. Time. They would enjoy that austerity also, and sometimes their enjoyment will become a distraction. So it is not that Krishna made himself very difficult to attain for people who are more qualified, and Krishna makes himself more easy for people who are less qualified. It is not that Krishna is being partial.

Krishna is simply being reciprocal. So in the past, people were more punyuan. They’re not necessarily spiritual. That’s why they said that there could be many many Munis. But among the Munis, So even there could be great sages who were liberated from the physical cravings, but still they may not necessarily so they were sattvic.

They were also spiritual, but they may not be devotional. So, basically, whatever time, place, circumstance it may be, the person has to exercise the free will to turn towards God. That principle is always there. See love has to be a voluntary choice of the heart and if somebody is making that choice they have to do some exercise. They have to put in some effort to show that they’re actually making the choice.

So in satyuga, our capacities are less, so we have to make less effort. But still, that effort doesn’t seem less for us. It is difficult. And in Satyuga, also people had to make effort. At that time, their capacities were more so they could make more effort, and that that that was expected of them.

So, essentially, Krishna wants to give his mercy to everyone at all times. But at the same time, Krishna also wants Krishna doesn’t want to force his love upon us. He wants us to show that we want it so that we have to reciprocate through our actions. Okay? Thank you so much, Progyny.

My second question can I ask, bro? Yes. So my second question is, Progyny, like, we see that, like, you discussed that that that people, having linear desire in the rajji things and sattva, triangular desires are there. So, like, like, how to decide, like, which things are in the the rajsik and sattvic and the the tamasik platform? Which things are in which platform?

It depends on the overall environment that they are in. It depends on also what kind what is happens to us when those desires are triggered. So, generally, we could assume that the world we live in is broadly rajasik. So if you’re studying in school and college, you’re working in a camp working in a company, then if somebody asks us to come for a party where there is drinking. Now maybe drinking is always there in all parties nowadays.

Okay. But, you know, in some places, there is, like, some parties where there is some event and then there is drinking by the side. But some parties, the main event is a drinking. Is it there are 2 different kinds of parties also. Like, sometimes there may be a corporate celebration might be there or the corporate event might be there.

So sometimes there are some charity funds, which are some char some charity gatherings are there. So their drinks are inside. But some teenagers gather when there’s nobody at home. They get them they get them together. That’s only drinking.

So you can say, what is likely to what are the main activity over there? What is the kind of effect it has on me? So sometimes people go to go to a party. They may take some drinks, but the main thing is, you know, they’re talking with people. They’re developing relationship.

They’re doing some networking over there. So that’s a different kind of party than somewhere. Some people are just drinking and they’re getting intoxicated and completely losing themselves. So we can see broadly what is the effect on others and see what is the effect on us likely. And based on that, we we are trying to understand this is whether this is likely to be Rajasik or Satwik.

So we can’t just use the word party generically and say that it is going to be Tamasik or it is going to be Rajasik. So, generally, it is. Look at the effect. Okay. So okay.

Okay. So there’s 2 questions, and we’ll stop with you. Thank you, Prashant. Harikshanapuru. My question is, is about decision making.

What triggers us, to make a decision about the right and wrong. And when we make a decision, we feel a great deal of anxiety. And sometime, sometime because of wrong decision, we feel guilty. Sometime we have to choose between right or wrong, good or bad. So whatever we make and the choices is about whichever part, whichever, way, suddenly we have to pick our So we don’t know where our comes from.

So we just suddenly we have to act on it. So is the is, we made or we are just act on it? Who make the I mean? Okay. So I’m regretting that I made the decision to give you the mic.

No. I’m not. Just joking. So the thing is that, decision making, there is a rational aspect to it, but there is also an emotional aspect to it. Krishna says.

So our mind is associated with the emotional aspect. The buddhi is associated with the rational aspect. So generally, from a rational aspect when we consider, there are 3 factors we consider, yamouli speaking. There’s the content of what we are doing. Okay.

What am I going to do? Then second is the consequence of what will result by this. And then there is the intent. Why am I doing this? So broadly speaking, these three factors are involved in the decision making.

So intent maybe is a normally I would not do this, but for your sake, I will do it. That means I don’t really care for this activity, but I care for you as a person, and therefore I’m doing it. So my intent is not so much where we are going. Like, a parent may have no desire to on their own, you know, play some game with them. But the child wants the parent to play a game.

The child the parent plays the game. That is what I am doing is not important, that I’m spending time with my child. I’m pleasing my child. That is important. So sometimes the intent is important.

Sometimes the consequence is important. Like, say, if I’m taking medicines, you know, I may not like the taste of the medicine. I may not like the the discipline that I have to follow when I’m doing that treatment, but then the result is good. So I do it. Sometimes it’s the content.

You know, this is what I’m expected to do. This is just my job description. This is just my responsibility. So so it could be that intent, content, and consequence. These are the 3 broad factors.

And different people, based on their particular nature and situation, may prioritize 1 or 2. 1 one of these one or the other among these. So there are whole ethical theories about which is most important. Is consequence the most important thing to consider? Like I mentioned, There it is basically I’m saying the consequence is more important.

But there are whole 3 theories what which could be the most important among these. So when we make a decision, we may not consciously think of all these things. We may do it less below the consciousness, we just say, you know, for this person, I will going to do this. You know? This is good for me, so I’ll do it.

This is just what I’m expected to do. I need to do this. So intent, content, consequence, these could be the factors. So these are at a if we consider the rational level, we often consider these things. Now at a emotional level, when we make decisions, often it is based on our raga and vesha, our likes and dislikes.

So now these 2 are not entirely different. Say, because of my like because I like this person and the fact that I get an opportunity to work with this person in this particular service, although I don’t like the service, the fact that I’ll get to work with this person, that’s why I’ll do the service. So you could say that the likes may play a part in our intent or dislike. You know, somebody doesn’t overall like to do exercise. But I dislike exercising, but I dislike being overweight even more.

Or I don’t dislike being overweight. I dislike being called overweight. So so whatever it is, then I may do some exercise. I may follow some diet. So our likes and dislikes can also affect what we prioritize.

The intent or the content or the consequence. So decision making is a complicated process. Now, specifically, where does the decision come from? If I consider the soul is here, the soul has these two resources, the buddhi and the mana, the mind and the intelligence. And the soul gets inputs from both, and it is for the soul to decide.

Now in some people or in some situations, you could say, it may be that the buddhi is so big that the mana, you just don’t care for it. Like, not at a conscious level again. Like, say, a mother may be very tired after a whole hard day’s work. But if a newborn baby starts crying at night, mother may not feel at all like waking up. But, dude, this is what I have to do.

No matter how I feel, I’m going to wake up and take care of my baby. So sometimes that’s that’s my responsibility. That’s what I’m expected to do. I have to do this. This is what being a mother means.

So that is the buddhi being very strong. Sometimes it could be the other way. The buddhi becomes weak and the mana becomes very strong. So there, what happens is that, you know, it’s like somebody we have to do a service with someone, and we just don’t like that person. You know?

What is the service? Doesn’t matter. My answer is no. It’s like either dislike is so much or the like is so much sometimes. You know?

Like, sometimes you may see in movies, you know, somebody is, like, infatuated with someone. You know, whatever that other person asks, okay, whatever you ask, I’m going to say yes only. You know, it’s like, people just the like becomes so much that the intelligence doesn’t matter at all over there. So that’s how sometimes people can get misled. People can get exploited also.

So broadly speaking, the mind and the intelligence are like 2 consultants for the soul. And we could say the decision you could say over here, the reason, the logic, the reason, the rational part comes from the mind, from the intelligence. The emotion part comes from the mind. Now from this combined unit, the intention comes. Largely, you could say the intention is coming from the soul, because the soul is the actual source of energy of consciousness.

Without the soul, nothing will happen. Mhmm. So the soul is making the decision, but sometimes it is that either the mind could be so strong or the intelligence could be so strong that it is not a consciously made decision. It is just that this is the way things are. So the soul is considered to be the decision maker, and that’s why it is the soul that is held responsible for the actions.

It is that we the principle of karma is we are held responsible for our actions. So we means the soul. But specifically with respect to our decisions, where where is the decision coming from? It is ultimately coming from the soul in one sense. But specifically, in some cases, the mind may be so strong that sometimes we get angry and we speak certain things and then we don’t even remember what we have spoken.

And then somebody recorded what we spoke and they play the recording. Did I speak that? How could I have spoken that? That can’t be me, but it’s my own voice over there. And it’s so sometimes we may not even be aware.

So the it’s like almost the mind’s impulse just becomes our default decision, and then we do it accordingly. So that’s also a possibility. And then if we feel generally, if we feel ourselves second guessing our decisions, then that’s either the mind or the intelligence. One of them was very prominent in making the decision, and the other part is now pulling us back, making us think again. So if we just did something based on emotions, then the intelligence will say, you know, you didn’t really think this through.

If we made the decision only based on reason, but we didn’t consider emotion, then the logic might all be there, but some part of us, you know, hey. This is too difficult. Maybe you should not have done this. So, ideally speaking, we need to engage both reason and emotion. So that will lead to the soundest decision.

Or if we base make a decision based on reason, somehow, we need to bring the emotion also along. Otherwise, the decision cannot be sustained for very long. Okay? So we’ll have the next question in the next session, if you don’t mind. I don’t want to go too much over time.

So thank you very much.