The bhakti journey 3 – Bhajan-kriya & Vishaya-sangara Durga puja youth camp Newtown Kolkata

So we are continuing our discussion on the bhakti journey. Yesterday, what was the topic that we mainly discussed? Sorry. One person? Anyone?

Yeah. Yeah. It’s bhajana kriya. So if you consider the stages, what are the stages we have discussed till now? 1st was Shaddha.

Shaddha is curiosity. Maybe there’s something of value over here. We start with that. And after that, sadhusanga. So we discussed how sadhusanga basically helps us to come to from the stage of curiosity to the stage of commitment.

So bhajana kriya is commitment where we start practicing the process. Now after this, the next stage is very long or at least it can feel very long. So within this, we are discussing various stages. So now the multiple stages that are there, it is not that they are linear. It is not that this stage comes after that stage after that stage.

They are struggles inside us, and we face them at different levels. So we are classifying them in a particular way, but that doesn’t mean somebody may not face the sec first one, second one, when when which will come, that may vary. So we discussed one stage yesterday in that, which was the one? Vishaya, Sangara. So Vishaya is sense objects.

Sangara is fighting against them, sangram. And we discussed the principle of how do we deal with it? Yes. We said boundaries. So the the sense objects are out there, and to if you’re fighting with them, we need some boundaries.

And we discussed four principles. What are cast? Category, stability, space, time. Yes. Excellent.

So now we will discuss the inner aspects of this battle. Like, there’s an enemy out there, and we have a boundary. But now there’s an enemy in here also. There could be inside the country. There could be criminals.

There could also be cross border terrorism, and we keep some terrorists outside the country, but there is some have already come inside. So we will now talk about the inner challenges. Now we could say all of this at one level is inner challenge only, but the inner challenge can be aggravated or compounded by external challenges or external temptations. So, like, if a country has an internal rebellion at the same time, there’s an external aggression, then it’ll be far more difficult to deal with that. So we’ll discuss 2 aspects over here.

1 is viewed Vikalpa. Now viewed Vikalpa, it can mean many things, but Vikalpa is alternative. So looking for alternatives. And the other is niyama akshama. Niyama akshama.

Kkshama is kshamata. So niyama akshama is the inability to follow rules. So now these terms can be understood in different ways. I am I’ll focus on understanding them in one particular framework. So remember when we talked about decision making, we said that there are 2 aspects inside us which contribute to the decision making.

What is that? Yes. Reason and emotion, and they are associated with buddhi and mana, intelligence and mind. So we can say that this view looking for alternatives, this arises when the buddhi, it lacks conviction. So we are not yet convinced that this is the thing to do.

Say, at this point, we are looking for some ways to get out because maybe this demand is too much. Maybe it’s not necessary. If somebody has diabetes and doctor says no sugar. So can I take 1 spoon sugar? What is the big deal if I take 1 spoon?

If I take 1 sweet per week, what is the big deal? So at this point, the person is not intellectually convinced. And now at the level of mana, we are looking for over here. So we are looking for alternatives because we think, yeah, maybe I can do this also and do this also. But when it’s at the level of mana, that is okay.

I I have to give up sugar because it’s very damaging for my diabetes, but I can’t do it. So in one sense, here there is, is there a need? We are not yet even convinced. Maybe is this so absolutely necessary? Maybe we shouldn’t be fanatical.

You know, we have to be balanced, isn’t it? And, yes, we need to be balanced, but we have to have a balanced understanding of what balanced means. Sometimes being balanced can become a justification for not following standards. So, is there a need now when we talk about that is niyama. Means that it’s inability that how can I do it?

I can’t. You hear the question is how can I do it? It is not so much in terms of wanting to know a process as feeling that I can’t do it. So here, it is a person who lacks hope, lacks confidence. Here, confidence means you’re talking about personal ability.

I can’t do it. So I hope the difference between these two is clear at this point. That one is maybe there is, maybe it’s not too important. Maybe it’s too big a issue made out of this. The other is, okay, it is a big issue.

I understand it. But it’s it just seems beyond me. So like an alcoholic may think, you know, see in the general western culture, drinking is a very common part of life. In fact, there was a British thinker who said, the taste of wine is the proof that God loves us. So his idea was that if God didn’t exist, how could something as tasty as wine exist?

So wine is the proof of God and not just God, a loving merciful God. So now is wine an intoxicant? Of course. But the prevailing philosophy over there is drink, but don’t get drunk. That’s like saying, okay, you can go on top of a big mountain cliff, peer down, look bend down as much as you want to look down, but don’t fall down.

Well, why take the risk? Isn’t it? So like that, drink but not get drunk. They now are there people who can follow that? Yeah.

There are many people who follow that, you know, isn’t it? But there is a unnecessary danger over there. So now now while many people might be able to do it, but somebody who has been an alcoholic and they’re trying to recover for it, whenever they drink, they get drunk. And drunk basically means that you just completely lose your intelligence, lose your common sense, and then you do undignified, foolish, terrible things. So that’s getting drunk.

That’s the terminology of drink but don’t get drunk. But somebody who has a history of getting drunk, for them to even drink once, what happens is for some people, like, this will come we’ll come to this particular point when you come to the Yamaksha also again. See, for some people, it may, like, be like the slope may be very gentle. Here it is drink and here is get drunk. That means it is a slope, but it is not a very sharp slope.

So some people, they may do something, that, okay, you, you know, watch TV for 15 minutes and stop after that. But okay. You can now if somebody is slipping down, this is a gentle slope. They can stop at any time, generally speaking. But on the other hand, if somebody is so this is the, you could say, the inner landscape.

And I’ll ex explain later how the inner landscape gets shaped like this. So for such a person, you know, one day, if somebody eats a little bit more sweets or little bit or little overeats, that’s okay. It’s not a big deal most of the time. But suppose somebody has been a foodaholic, Somebody has been just, like, bingeing on food till the point that they have to it can become pathologically harmful. There’s in Australia.

I was I was giving a class. There one doctor came to me, and he said that once he was called to the emergency. Said, what happened? There was a young man, he had eaten so much chicken that there there is a kids people sometimes kids are foolish. They have all kinds of foolish competitions.

You know, who can eat the cake fastest? Who can eat more burgers or whatever? So they had a chicken eating competition. And he had eaten so many chicken that actually his throat had become literally clogged. And he said I had to go there, open his mouth and put a prong inside and take chicken out from there.

Horrible. But so there are people, if somebody has eaten like that, they may have to be very, very careful about eating. So for some people, the inner landscape may be gentle. For some other people, that inner landscape may be like a steep fall. So from here, if somebody is over here, if they go down the slope, then soup, they will just go down.

So for us, the for different people, the inner landscape may be different. And say some people say they have a habit of oversleeping. Okay. Now I’m feeling a little tired. Let me sleep 10 minutes more.

And they’ll sleep for 10 minutes and they will pick up after 10 minutes. But somebody said 10 minutes becomes 1 hour, it becomes 2 hours, it becomes 3 hours. And if we know that, then maybe 10 minutes, no more 10 minutes. So each one of us has a different kind of inner landscape. And you could also put it, this difference in the inner landscape can be different, not just for different people, it can be different with respect to different temptations.

Somebody may have no temptation for watching TV, but somebody may have a lot of temptation for gossiping. And you start gossiping, start doing and 5 minutes becomes 5 hours, and you don’t even realize it. So each this inner landscape will be different for different people with respect to different particular temptations. Now it may also be different with respect to different situations. Some people have an innate sense of responsibility that, you know, that, okay, I will talk with you, but I have to go for the I have this job, I have this service, I have to go there.

And they’ll do that. So so but for some people, you know, once they get into something, they forget all responsibilities. Like, sometimes people start watching TV and they get so caught in watching TV or surfing social media that they forget I have to go and pick up my child from school. You know, the child is more sitting at school waiting and then the parents feel so embarrassed. What happened?

They can’t say I was watching TV. But so sometimes people have no sense of responsibility or they have a very low sense of responsibility. So now some situations, we may take them as optional. You know, if our family tells us buy something from office buy something on your way back from office, we may forget it. But if the boss tells complete this by time and time.

Now you cannot just forget what the boss says. Otherwise, the boss will forget you only. There is no fire you and forget you. That will not work. So basically, the point is according to situations also this inner landscape may be different for different people.

So a thing over here is that some people may there in so if we consider this as a steep slope. So from this perspective, if you consider this as a picture of final landscape. Now here, for this person, if the if the mistake that while their inner landscape is steep, they think it to be gentle. If they mistake like that, they may think, okay, one slip down, one little relaxing of the rule. What is the big deal?

So here, they may look for vikalpa, vyudha vikalpa. Right? Okay. It’s not such a big deal if you don’t follow. It’s that because they don’t think it is so serious.

Now that is where we come into justification, rationalization, and I’ll talk about this a little later More. But I’m talking familiar with the difference between the two. But suppose somebody has slipped, and they have come to this point. Now from there, to stop themselves may be impossible. No.

Gravity just takes over at that time. So after this, if somebody is always already slipping down a steep slope, then to stop, it may be akshama. I cannot do it. So it is it is just total helplessness, hopelessness. We’ll talk about the difference between the two also.

But that point, it is just one is unable to do it. So for first, we need to strengthen our intelligence. 2nd is we need to strengthen our mind. We need to purify our mind. So today I’ll try to keep a little more time for questions also.

Yesterday we didn’t have time for questions. If not today morning, we will have, today evening, a longer session for questions. Now in general, if we consider in terms of 4 quadrants, that we have our mind and we have our intelligence. Now I could use the word strong or healthy. I’m using healthy means the mind understands what is good, and similarly the intelligence can be strong or healthy.

Now if you consider based on this, there are 4 possibilities. There is a weak mind and weak intelligence. So this person is more or less powerless. They don’t have much intelligence to make plans or schemes or plots, but their mind is also weak. That means they don’t have any strong desires within them.

So such people will mostly be, like, depressed. They don’t do anything. They will be in in Tamaguna, Tamasik. Not everybody in this Tamasik. Some people, you know, for them to just get out of bed itself is a big tapasya.

I just don’t feel like doing anything. Such people are not likely to do much harm to others. So many times, sometimes governments prefer their population to be docile like that. So if the government provides lots of entertainment, lots of sports, lots of porn, then people just keep enjoying those things, and they don’t even see what the government is doing. So so now this could be a manipulative tool.

But the point is the mind is weak, the intelligence is weak, the person can’t do much. Now when I’m using the word weak over here, I’m using it in a sense that there are there are very little desires. I’m not talking about whether desires are good or bad. I’m just talking here about desires per se. So right now, let’s remove the healthy part from it.

So now if a person has a strong mind and a weak intelligence. Now what do I mean here? Mind means desires, and intelligence is also convictions. So if there are strong desires and weak convictions, then what is going to happen is that person is going to be is going to be you could pay that person is going to run here and there. They’re made to run here and there by their desires.

Eat this, watch this, buy this, and some people might get into a huge amount of debt because of that. I was in Canada, one devotee told me that he is in inheritance law. So inheritance law generally in India, inheritance law means he’s attorney. So is it like, if there are if there is a patriarch in the family and the parents have a lot of wealth and then the kids, they fight among themselves. Who will get the wealth?

Maybe the will is not very clear, then there can be a problem. Wherever there is a will, what happens? There are many willing relatives. They come to fight with each other. So so I thought that’s what inheritance law means.

He said, yes, that is there. But in America, that is not a big issue so much. He said, what happens? Parents want to give the money to their children. But if the children have not learned discipline, then if after the parents die, all the property comes in the name of the children, and then the children can squander all the money.

And nowadays, you see, people don’t even need much effort to spend money. Isn’t it? So somebody can go through a $1,000,000 within a month. They can just go to expensive places, buy this, buy that, can buy all kind of crap. But so the parents, they want to give the money to the children, but they say per year, they’ll get only this much money.

It’ll more than enough for the maintenance and some enjoyment, but they don’t want the children to squander all the money. And then what happens? The children after the parents pass away, the children file a case in the court, and they say that my parents were not mentally stable when they wrote this will. So break this will, and I want the money right away. So this devotee in inheritance law, he said, my key specialty is writing bills that cannot be broken using argument like mental instability.

So so that is itself a specialization. So now the point is that if a person’s mind is very strong and the intelligence is not strong, then it can be a very troublesome thing. The person will just spend without thinking. The person will enjoy without thinking. Now there can be different kinds of enjoyment also.

Like somebody may want to enjoy good food, but they may say, okay, this is not very healthy. This is tasty and healthy. The person can now so that’s the person will just be controlled here and there. Now the intelligence is strong, the mind is not strong. That’s the third situation.

So now relatively speaking, such a person can be peaceful. At least the mind is not making the person run here and there. And the person can be peaceful and focused. Okay. Or let’s focus, let’s use the word steady.

Okay. I know this is the right thing, and I will do this. So the desires are not very strong in such a person. Now if the person’s mind is strong and the desires are also strong, then such a person can actually be powerful. What do you mean by powerful over here?

See, I started by saying that mind is not always an enemy. The mind can have desires or it it’s natural for the mind to have desires. And some desires can be positive, some desires can be negative. You remember we talked about and vasana? So there’s a difference, and we’ll explore that difference a bit more.

But the point is that, say, somebody is very intelligent, and they say, they also have strong desire. You know, India has deserts. India has places where there floods. So can we create a link by which the water from the flooded area will go to the deserted area? Now the Indus Valley civilization in India Indian history, as far as our history goes, is unique.

It had a very good irrigation system, very good urban infrastructure was there. Parallel level of infrastructure is not seen in even the Greek civilization or any other civilization at that time. So the point is they were intelligent people. So somebody is intelligent, their intelligence is strong and their mind is strong. They have a they have understanding, they can do planning, and they can have desires.

Then they can do some good. Now they’re powerful. They can be powerful in a constructive way. They can be powerful in a destructive way also. Hitler had a strong desire.

I want Germany to rule the world. And his intelligence, it was dispirited, but he reinterpreted the whole Aryan theory to say that we are the original Aryans, and we are we populated the whole world, actually, and, therefore, we are meant to rule the whole world. He came up with the ideology, and he he was a good orator. He poisoned the entire German state. So somebody who has a strong mind and strong intelligence, depending on how they use it, It can be constructive, it can be destructive, but such people are powerful people.

So we would like the mind and intelligence both to be strong, but the mind to be filled with healthy desires. So here now I’m trying to differentiate between strong is not the same as healthy. When you say at a physical level, strong and healthy are the same thing. Somebody is strong, they must be healthy. But at the level of mind, somebody may have strong desires, but their desires may not be healthy desires, isn’t it?

Like somebody, if you consider jihadis, they have strong desires and even have strong convictions. They really believe that the world of Jannath or wherever, nobody has seen that. But their strong belief that, oh, if I go there, there are 73 virgins waiting for me. There’s not even a 1 virgin waiting for me over here. So let me go there.

So there’s strong desires and strong convictions. But the desires themselves may be destructive, may be harmful. That’s why strong and healthy is not the same thing. Same way you can have strong convictions. But just because the strong convictions are there, they need not be healthy convictions.

So the Marxists actually believed that, you know, if we just take all the wealth from the wealthy people and distribute among the poor people, then everybody can be happy. A strong belief. But the assumption over there was that wealthy people will have become wealthy by exploiting and abusing others. But that is a possibility. But it’s also possible that wealthy people have become wealthy because they are competent, because they’re hardworking, because they are intelligent.

And if you just and poor people may be poor because they’re exploited and abused, but poor people may be poor because they are lazy, because they’re incompetent, because they are they are having bad habits. Both are possibilities. But if you simply take wealth from the wealthy and give it to poor, it’s not that everybody will become wealthy, that everybody will end up becoming poor because society will have no wealth creators. It’s like they tried it in school also that after exam, they said we have no discrimination. So everybody will get the same marks.

And they said consider the marks of the highest student, consider the mark of the lowest student, do an average, give the average marks to everyone. If you do that, what happens? Those who are intelligent, those who can get top marks, they lose the impetus. Why should we study? We’re not going to get any recognition.

And those who are poor, they say even if we don’t study, we’re gonna get better marks than what we deserve. Isn’t it? So it just spectacularly backfired. So my point is somebody can have strong convictions, but their convictions may not be right convictions. So here we’re talking about the mind and intelligence.

Krishna says that lust is situated not just in the senses, but also in in the mind and the intelligence. So here, so ideally speaking, we could say that if you consider Prabhupada. Prabhupada had a strong conviction that Mahaprabhu’s mercy is meant for the world, but then he had also strong desire that Bhakti Santhakur had wanted many of his disciples. It was like a standing instruction to all his disciples that you, help me in the mission to the west. But Prabhupada had the strongest desire, and that’s why he created ways and means by which he could go abroad.

The Gaudiya Mathur didn’t support him in any way. In fact, some of them some people even tried to sabotage his mission, but still he went. So the desire it’s important thing, desire itself is not a bad thing. Desire directed to a worthy cause can be a very good thing. So we we these two particular things I’m talking about, and we’re trying to give a background to understand how they are relevant for us.

Okay. So now so if we want to do something, say, if we want to discipline ourselves in some way, okay, I want to regulate how much I sleep, how much I spend on social media time, how much I eat, how much time I spend gossiping. There are typical things we may say, how much we’ve spent in sensual indulgence, whatever it is. So if you wanna discipline ourselves, so for that, we need both. We need conviction.

Conviction will be our intelligence needs to be first of all convinced. This is important. This is necessary. And then our mind needs purification. So purification means, the impure desires are not dominating our mind.

So purification can be used in a spiritual sense, but it can be used in a functional sense. Purification, like pure water is water that is meant that will do what water is meant to do. Water is meant to quench thirst. But if water gives me disease, then that is not pure water. So we could say pure means okay.

Many ways of understanding pure, that means it does what it is meant to do. So for example, if a student comes for studying, so a student comes to IIT, and IIT a good college, and now there were very bright future awaits them in the future. But first of all, conviction has to be there that, you know, this this is a this is a promising option that is open for me. And then after that, you could say purification in a student. But let’s not bring in a spiritual context, would be that if I come to college, my primary purpose is studying.

Yeah. Other kids may just spend time having fun, dating and partying and boozing, but that’s not what I have come here for. So so pure so at that time, a pure desire would mean that if I have come for studying, study. Somebody come somebody becomes a sports player. Then now along with sports, you can get fame, you can get distracted by so many things.

But, okay, I’ve come here to study. That’s what I’m going I come here to play, I’m gonna work out, I’m gonna training, I’m gonna practice, that’s what I’m going to do primarily. So basically, when we are using the word purification means our desires are aligned. So when conviction is the purpose is worthwhile, this is a worthwhile purpose. This is an important purpose.

And then purpose means this is what I have come to do, and purification means our desires are aligned with our purpose. So let’s try to look at these two things now. When our intelligence is not convinced, Then if the intelligence is unconvinced, then what we do what do we do? We try to look for alternatives. We may try to look for shortcuts.

We may try to look for escape ways. How can I pretend to do this without doing this? It’s like sometimes we have devotee parents and say, if they have kids who have grown up with their parents being devotees, so the parents want them to come to a temple, but they don’t want to come to the temple. So they come to the temple, but, you know, in the temple, they may not talk with any devotees. They may just spend all the time on their phone.

Or they may have some other friend also who is not interested in the temple, and they will talk about movies, and they’ll talk about sports, and they’ll talk about girlfriend and boyfriend, nothing else. So they come into the temple, but they’re not convinced about the value of coming to the temple. So in the temple, they are looking for alternatives to Krishna, isn’t it? So when there is vyudha vikalpa, it’s like we may externally be in Krishna consciousness, but we are looking for alternatives to Krishna to focus our mind. So if this is happening, then this is where the conviction of the intelligence comes through primarily hearing.

But it is not just hearing. After that, the then after that, there is contemplating. There is. Each one of us needs to contemplate. So without that contemplation, okay, this sound nice, but it’s not applicable for me.

It’s not relevant for me. So we need to contemplate. After contemplating, there is assimilating or we could say realizing. Now realizing is a big step, but it may take time to realize. But at least we assimilate in the sense that we are there is accepting.

I there is we get we find it convincing for ourselves. Yes. This is something which I accept. So, for example, the Bhagavata says, So now we may hear that, we may quote that words also. But we may secretly disbelieve it.

You know, yeah, you know, maybe it’s a little extreme. There is enjoyment and sense pleasure also. Where is the dukkha? I don’t see why dukkha over here. Well, yes.

Is there enjoyment? Of course. Krishna also says there’s enjoyment over there. Is there. But the problem is it is it is just a drop.

It ends. And after it ends, then there is so much dissatisfaction, frustration. So we need conviction. So I’ll talk about some ways in which we can get the conviction. So quite often, if we consider that there are the sense there are the senses and there are the sense objects.

And generally, if the senses come in contact, so there’s a desire for the sense objects, and the desire leads to contact. Then through this, there is pleasure. So if you eat some delicious food, there’s pleasure. If you see something beautiful, there is pleasure. If you hear something nice, musical, melodious, there’s pleasure.

Now for most people, when the pleasure is less or it is nil, That the diagnosis that they do. Why? They think it is because the sense objects are not available or they are not good enough. That means that, oh, you know, I am not enjoying the food because in our hostel the cook is not good. And or the menu is not according to my liking.

And there is some truth to this. You can always improve the quality of the sense objects and you can get some pleasure. But there is a limitation to this. I was in America. You know, many times kids, they put all kinds of weird quotes on their t shirt, and sometimes they’re not even aware of it.

So they were just scared. He had a quote that 90% of the world’s women are beautiful. The remaining 10% are in my college. Now it’s like a slap in the face of all the girls in that college. But along with that, see, this is an illusion.

Why it’s an illusion? How do you know how 90% of the world’s women look like? And what do you see on TV? What do you see on ads? What do you see in mainstream media or social media?

And there, most of the images are doctored. You know, first there is physical makeup and then there’s digital makeup. So first the photos are in the best shape and then there is photo shopping of the photos. So what happens is people start thinking that actually everyone looks far more attractive than the people I see around me. And then they think, okay, I’m not enjoying because the sense objects are not good enough.

But the problem is while this is a reason, another bigger reason is our senses themselves are limited. Even if somebody owned a 5 star hotel where they could eat as much as they wanted, The belly’s capacity is limited. Isn’t it? So there is this senses being limited is a far bigger factor in frustrating our capacity to enjoy. Whichever sense pleasure we take up, it is there is always a limitation over there.

So our mind always gets excited whenever some tempting sense object comes up. Okay. No. If only I could get that, I’d enjoy so much. And it is true.

There is some enjoyment. Says that there is a drop of nectar, but So the idea here is that our pursuit of happiness through sense pleasure is a intrinsically doomed pursuit. It is not extrinsically doomed. Extrinsically doomed is that I don’t have the good enough sense objects. That’s why I can’t enjoy.

But intrinsically doomed means even if I get the best sense objects, still I cannot increase the capacity of my senses. No matter what I do, they are going to be limited, and that cannot be increased. So the pursuit of sense pleasure. Now I’m not going here into a elaborate analysis of sense pleasure. I’m just giving some ways in which we can convince ourselves.

So pursuit of sense pleasure, it is doomed. It is not just extrinsically doomed, extrinsic means, oh, outside the sense objects are not available, but it is also intrinsically doomed. So if you understand this, then all the excitement that a person gets. See, a person can be sexually agitated 24 hours a day. But if a person even gets the most attractive object to enjoy with, The body’s capacity to enjoy is just for a few minutes and then it’s over.

And even those few minutes keep decreasing as a person keeps getting older. So it’s intrinsically doomed. Now another way to look at this is that whenever there is indulgence, whenever there is indulgence, what happens is we initially feel pleasure, but after some time, all that we feel is relief. Like, alcoholics, when they drink first time, maybe first time now, they have to get used to the taste of alcohol, but after some time they feel high. However, over a period of time, it is not that drinking alcohol makes them go high, rather not drinking alcohol makes them go so low that they have to drink to even feel normal and be functional.

So there’s one devotee who was alcoholic then he started becoming devotee and he’s given up. He says, you know, after some time I drank not because it was so enjoyable, I drank because not drinking was so miserable. Not drinking was so miserable. So what happens over here is that while indulgence does give some pleasure, but what happens after indulgence? The desire becomes stronger.

Many times when we enjoy, we feel relief. So how it is is that, say, okay, come on. Imagine this is a flame. Not a map of some country. But now if we put a large block of wood, large block on the flame, the flame will get extinguished.

Will it? At least the flame will disappear, isn’t it? But the problem is that what if the block of food catches fire, isn’t it? There’s a flame, and I put some heavy object on it, it gets extinguished. But if the object is inflammable, the flame has disappeared, but the flame has not got extinguished.

It has disappeared till that block catches fire, and then the flame will become even bigger, isn’t it? So for us, indulgence when we indulge in some pleasure, we feel okay, you know, I’m that desire has gone away. But the problem is the desire has not gone away. It has just gone down. And afterwards, it will come up stronger, it will come up stronger.

So that’s what happens is, it’s gone down, not away. So it appears as if it has gone away, but it comes back again. And next time when it comes back, see, initially, if you consider even the curve of a desire, initially the desire might just be like a prompt. Come on, let’s watch this, let’s eat this, but after some time it becomes not just a prompt it becomes a push, come on do this, like prompt means somebody is coming from here let’s go for a movie but push means somebody is we are sitting somebody is pushing off our chair come on let’s go and watch a movie And after some time, it actually becomes like a prod. You know what is a prod?

The word prod is used nowadays, prod or a prong. It’s like somebody’s piercing us from within. Somebody say, somebody is not just, come on let’s go for a movie. Somebody has got something like a piercing, come on go. If you don’t go for the movie, I’ll keep I’ll keep piercing you.

So after some time, the desire, it it actually becomes like a torment from inside. That and what we call as enjoyment here, it might be pleasure, but here, it is just a relief from the torment. That’s what it’s not that I’m enjoying when I do this. It is not doing it is so miserable. It’s so unbearable that I that what I call as enjoyment is actually just a relief.

Now this is what happens when somebody gets into, say, drug addiction and they want some they want to say, I’ll give it up. That is what they call as withdrawal pains. Now withdrawal pains now different, people sometimes there are psychological symptoms. The person can’t concentrate, can’t think, but sometimes there are even physiological symptoms where the person starts trembling. Like, this can’t physically function.

And then sometimes they have while giving up a particular drug, there has to be some other medicinal drug has to be given. And carefully, the person has to be brought down. So so if we understand this, that actually, what I’m calling as pleasure, it’s not pleasure. It’s just a relief from a self created torment. Like, say, if there were 2 people, say, if say this is the hostel, this is the college, and there are 2 kids, say, if along the way, there is a bar.

Now the one kid has never drunk and has no interest in drinking for whatever reason. That kid may not even notice the bar after some time. It’s just a part of the landscape. He’ll go ahead. But for the kid who is drunk, then as soon as that sees the bar, the urge comes.

Come on. Let’s go and drink. He said, no. Today, I got a class. He just go drink once.

You know? What is the big deal? Yeah. Nobody will even notice it. Last time you did that, nobody noticed.

You go there, take one drink, and let’s take one more. And then even if that person says no, there is so much, like, psychological tug of war that is there. So much emotional energy is drained in that fighting. So if now why is that torment there? Because that person drank initially.

That person is just not so that’s why I’m saying it’s a self created torment. And drinking is not so much a pleasure as a relief from the self created torment. And the relief is also a temporary relief. It’s like putting a block of wood to extinguish the fire. And then what happens as the fire becomes bigger and bigger, you need bigger and bigger blocks of wood also.

The same quantity doesn’t work after some time. So now we could go into psychology and how the mind that dopamine is a pleasure or pleasure enzyme and then that people get dopamine hits, they want more and more severe dopamine hits. The same pleasure does not the same stimulus does not give pleasure. That’s how the mind gets conditioned also. But the point is, this is another way we can analyze that, you know, this kind of indulgence, it’s a dead end.

I don’t want to go in this direction. So when we may hear many classes, we may read many things, but we have to contemplate and find out what convinces me. Each one of us is different. Each one of us each each of our intelligences is different. So that view that alternatives we are seeking.

So, no, we cannot live on borrowed conviction. Like sometimes some devotees use a very powerful class and sometimes the devotees use, like, an instruction. Don’t do this. And we say, okay, I just out of respect for this person, I won’t do it. So that is more like borrowed conviction.

Like kids, because their parents had told me don’t do this, they won’t do it. But if that is the only reason, it may be very difficult for the kid to continue that throughout the life. The borrowed conviction cannot can take us only so far. It has to become personalized conviction. I we cannot live on borrowed conviction for very long.

So what we hear so if I go back over here, where is it? Yeah. Hearing. From hearing, what we will get see, initially, it’s like borrowed conviction. Somebody else’s conviction, I’m leaving on that.

But here it becomes internalized conviction. Like, borrowed conviction is like, I am borrowing money from someone and I’m spend I’m spending that money. Then I have to constantly depend on that person to give me money. But internalized conviction means I have got my own income sources. And so I can think, I can reflect on my experiences, I can reflect on the point that I have heard.

Then I am convinced of this myself. Now, of course, we may still need to refresh our convictions. Because what happens is even if we have a strong conviction, even if we have a healthy conviction, the world is doing a lot of propaganda, and the world is undermining our convictions. So we need to keep hearing regularly. But hearing, it should not just be borrowed convictions.

Slowly, it has to go inside. There’s one social critic. He said the problem with the world is that the wise are full of doubts and the foolish are full of certainties. They’re full of conviction. I have a maternal uncle who went to America.

He’s among the, like, the first, probably, 1st 100 people from India went to America. In the 19, 19 sixties end, America liberalized its immigration laws, and then Indians started going to America. So he went in the early 19 seventies. So he has such conviction that he has he has arranged for almost, like, 55 of our relatives to come to America. He used various legal loopholes in this.

He started his own company and employed people, and he wanted me also to come to America. He didn’t have a son, so he wanted me to inherit his company. I frustrated him, unfortunately. Unfortunately, whatever it is. But when I talk with him, you know, his conviction that people should come to America, sometimes I feel it’s more than my conviction that people should go back to Godhead.

So the idea is now are things better in America? Yeah. In some ways, they are better. Materally, they are comfortable, but it can be very lonely. At a physical level there’s a lot of comfort, at a psychological level there’s a lot of loneliness, a lot of mental health issues.

It’s a complex thing, but the point is that sometimes people’s convictions about material things may be very strong, and our conviction about spiritual things may not be that strong. So we need to strengthen our convictions. Many times if I feel my determination is not strong, what is not strong? It’s the underlying conviction itself. This is good for me.

This is not just good. This is the best for me, or this is bad for me. This is going to take me to a terrible place. So one way so last point I’ll take how to get convictions is that see the big picture. See the big picture means that somebody may say, okay, you know, I I spend half an hour on social media every day, or I watch TV for half an hour every day.

Half an hour not a big deal. Okay. Half an hour may not seem a big deal. And this I’ll give up whenever I want. Okay.

Okay. Half an hour daily may not seem a big deal, but half an hour per week. So would you like to be spending this half an hour on TV? Or, like, if somebody says half an hour is very modest, some people spend 2, 3, 6 hours. So do you want to be spending this if somebody spends 2 hours on TV every day?

Do you want to be spending this 2 hours on TV after 10 years? Well, no. By that time, I’ll have a career. I’ll have I’ll have responsibility. I don’t want to spend that.

Okay. Do you want to spend it after if you consider 10 years, 100 of hours will have wasted. So much you can do in 100 hours. Okay. What about 5 years?

Maybe. See, when what happens is if I’m here and one step in this direction, one step in this direction, doesn’t seem to be a big difference. But that one step in this direction repeated will take me here, one step in this direction will take me here. So when we see the big picture, then the gravity of the small choice becomes clear to us. Small choices may not always be small choices because each small choice reinforces our tendency to make that same choice again.

Remember in the first section, I talked about the browser. Each time we visit a particular website, that website comes as an auto prompt. So what happens is each choice, it’s not in isolation. Oh, I just made one this choice today. Tomorrow, I will make it.

Each choice, it is it is in connection, not isolation. What it does is it becomes a facilitator for similar future choices. Not just similar, it may become worse future choices. So each small choice matters. And that if we understand this, like, every action that I do, it is an unwitting commitment to doing the same action again and again, maybe for the rest of my life and not just rest of my life.

Krishna says, lifetime after lifetime it will go on. So each choice, the small choice is not a small choice. So these are just some ways I’m giving. The point is we hear many different points in classes, and we have to find those points which convince us. And then maybe put them in our own words.

Maybe write them in our, maybe keep them in physical notepad or notepad on our phone and revisit those points regularly. Otherwise, we will always keep looking for alternatives. As we’re looking for alternatives, then we will never be able to connect with Krishna. Remember you want to make Krishna bigger, the world smaller. But if you are constantly keep looking at the world and think it’s no big deal and the world will never become smaller.

If you’re not consistently focused on looking on Krishna, Krishna will never become bigger. So we need conviction. So for us, strengthening our buddhi is very important. Krishna says that in 343, he gives a very interesting inner hierarchy. He says that there are the sense objects.

Now above the sense this is actually this hierarchy comes in 342. So there are the senses. Above the senses is the mind. Above this is the intelligence. Above this is the soul.

Now in this particular hierarchy it is not mentioned, but above it is the super soul. Above it all is Krishna. So now if we consider this to be the conditioned soul, Now we can say the is in our heart, so inside, but let’s keep this is the conditioned soul. Let’s, for the time being, keep it outside. So the idea is that there is a natural pull of gravity toward the sense objects.

So the gravity of attachments, the gravity of material desires. We all will get pulled toward the sense objects. So now how do we go upwards? So jivaswami says the key is the buddhi. It is the buddhi that should remind me of the soul.

It is the buddhi that should remind me that I am a part of Krishna. It is in Krishna it is in connecting with Krishna that is my greatest interest. So it is our buddhi that will bring the upper upward link. Now once we grow spiritually, once we become purified, then there can be preti, there can be prema. Then we will naturally attracted towards Krishna, but till we get to that point, the buddhi is extremely important.

So strengthening our buddhi says buddhi is what keeps us in bhakti till we develop pure love for Krishna. And that’s why within sadhana bhakti, we offer as vidhi bhakti. Vidhi bhakti is we follow the vidhi of scripture. And that is not just, oh, instruction is given, I have to obey it. See, obedience will take us so far.

After instruction, there has to be internalization of the instruction. And this is good for me. This is in my best interests. We need to be convinced about it. So that that looking for alternatives will stop when the intelligence is convinced.

Now after that also, that doesn’t mean immediately we’ll become free from material enjoyment or material indulgence also. We may still fall. That is because my intelligence is convinced, but still my mind keeps pulling me in opposite direction. So, what can happen, this I’ll discuss in our next session. I wanted to go into this, view of Vikalpa a little bit more because it is an important key step, and it is often overlooked.

See, in one sense, gaining conviction is actually easier or faster than gaining purification. Like, purification means the mind’s desires change. That may take time. Like say somebody has diabetes, that sugar is bad. And the second is I don’t like sugar.

Now for somebody to come to the level of I don’t like sugar, that may take a very long time. But even if I like sugar, it is not good. I like sugar, but I like living more. Isn’t it? I like sugar, but I like health more.

So it is so that gaining in changing our intelligence, in one sense, changing intelligence is easier than changing the mind. So if we can just strengthen our intelligence, although there will be an inner war, but that inner war, we will have the determination to fight that war at least. And we fight that war, we can win it. But if we are not even sure whether we should be fighting this war, then the chance of winning is very, very less. So So at least we need to be convinced that this war is worth fighting.

So Buddhi uses this conviction. So now there could be broadly four possibilities. Say, there is Krishna here and there is Maya in whatever form here. So we have our Mana and our Buddhi. So it is possible that intelligence and mind.

The intelligence is attracted towards Maya, the mind is also attracted towards Maya. So such a person is is a materialist, but is not just a materialist, like a pure devotee of materialism. Yeah. That is like what Krishna says, that It is everybody wants sense pleasure, but such people think that there is nothing else apart from this in life. Sense pleasure is the only purpose of life.

To come. What other purpose can even be there? There can’t there’s no purpose at all. So such people we use generally use the word fanaticism in terms of religion, but such people are fanatical materialists. Just just nothing else at all for them.

Now what may happen? The next stage is the intelligence goes in this direction, but the mind goes in the opposite direction. So here, there is a struggle. Now after this now this is very, very rare, but it is like the intelligence may go towards Maya, but the mind goes towards Krishna. Now this can happen if somebody has had That means somebody say he’s born in a very materialistic family somehow for whatever reason.

But in the spiritual life, they have practiced some sujair. So this is actually very rare. But what can happen is that the best situation is where the intelligence and the mind both go towards Krishna. That means we understand that with the intelligence that Krishna is the most valuable. So with intelligence, we understand Krishna is valuable.

With the mind, we understand Krishna is the most desirable. So Krishna is saying, if we come to this stage, then he says, So this is 8.7. Krishna also talks about the same thing in, is it, I think 12.13. So it’s 12.4 14, something like that. So the idea is that we would like to come to this stage where the intelligence and the mind both are attracted toward Krishna.

But it may take time. So at least our intelligence should be going toward Krishna even if our mind is not going towards Krishna. So that we come to through by going through the stage of. So personally developing our conviction is important. So that contemplating and then internalizing.

Internalizing, one way to do it is speaking and writing. See, because if you are going to give a class on a particular topic, if you are not confident about it, then what is happening is you will not feel very confident speaking about it if people ask questions. You won’t have answers. If you decide I’m going to speak on a particular topic, then we will actually try to strengthen our conviction. And if you’re going to write on it, you may write articles for others but writing for yourself also.

Somehow when we put in our words, so there is an internalization that happens which does not happen if we are not putting things in our own words. Yes, we can memorize scriptural verses, that is wonderful. It’s very purifying and uplifting. But a point we try to articulate it in our own words. Then like our words are a part of our they’re expression of our thoughts.

So when you put something in our words, the connection that is developed, that is very deep. Sometimes you may see in conflict resolution, If one one standard way to do conflict resolution is, if I’m angry with you, then before I make my case, the mediator tell me, you make his case in your words. You know, why does this person not agree with you? What are this person’s concerns? It’s actually very difficult to do it.

And if you genuinely try to put the other person’s case in your words, then our anger toward that person goes down substantially. We may still disagree with them. But, okay, I understand where you are coming from. I understand why you think like this. And then the the discussion becomes much more reasonable.

So putting our words on an idea makes that idea much more relatable, intelligible. It remains less foreign for us. So that, that putting it in our words is a very good way to develop the conviction. So I’ll summarize what we discussed today. We had discussed today primarily the internal obstacle.

The external obstacle with respect to metal indulgence we discussed yesterday. Internal obstacle specifically of of looking for alternatives. So how do we deal with that? 1st, we discussed about the inner landscape. You know how for different people in a landscape might be a gentle slope, for some people it might be very steep slope.

So first, so it’s there could be a misconception that what is steep, I think it to be gentle. Then that’s why we may not take something seriously. So this misconception will lead to us looking for Vikalpa. What is the big deal if I slip down go down a little bit? But then if one is actually slipping, then it may be beyond what’s control.

It may be inability. So we discussed about how this this quadrant of intelligence being weak or of mind being weak or strong and intelligence being weak or strong. So in one sense, this is the best situation, but in this situation a person who is powerful can be constructive or destructive. So we would like to be constructively powerful. So strong desire for Krishna, strong conviction about Krishna.

That is the best situation to be in. So now conviction, how do we develop this? We discussed about how it is something which is to be moved it has to be moved from borrowed. Borrowed means we hear. So hearing is something which is important.

But from hearing, there is contemplating. And we may contemplate and sometimes we contemplate and say, I don’t find this point very convincing. That’s fair enough. It’s that although shastra has many points, not every point will strike us. So contemplating is also a part of selecting.

Yeah. This is a good point. But sometimes, you know, this if I were to share something, I don’t think I can tell this story. I like this story or like this example. This is what I’m going to speak.

So contemplating and then after that comes internalizing. So this internalizing this journey, it can be done by speaking or writing, basically putting in our words. And then I discussed some examples of that conviction, how we can get our conviction. I discussed 3 main points with respect to say, sense gratification. That the first is that the pleasure is not there.

That is not because the sense objects are unavailable or they are not good enough, but it is also because the senses are limited and nothing can be done about it. And second point we discuss is how? That what we call as pleasure is actually just a relief. It’s a relief from a self created torment. It like, the more we indulge, the fire becomes more and more, and it burns us from within.

So what is the the pleasure itself is not very big over there. What a third point we discussed? So so it’s like sometimes you may feel that it’s a small choice. So it’s a small choice is actually not a small choice. Because what is going to happen is that choice is going to create a conditioning.

And that conditioning is going to lead to a repetition of the choice. So therefore, a small choice is not a small choice. So understanding that can we may say, okay, this I don’t want to do this. We see the big picture. So there are various ways, these are just examples of how we may get conviction, but each one of us needs to strengthen our conviction.

And then after that has been done, at least even if our mind is going in one direction, at least our intelligence will be going in the other direction. So we’ll at least be fighting. Be fighting, then after that, we will eventually come to be winning. But if we’re not fighting, there is no chance of winning at all. Thank you very much.

Hare Krishna. So we have time for a few questions. We will just take about this topic today. Yes, please. Where is the mic?

Is the mic there? Maybe you can speak loudly. I’ll repeat the question. Hi, Krishna. So I want to ask this question that, you explained, Niyama Aksham with respect to, vyakta vikalpa in the example that the slope is steep and we miss, we misinterpret as, gentle.

Right? That was for That was not for. No. Yes. Misunderstanding it is.

Yes. Is actually if somebody is just falling down. And they say you somebody will be able to stop. Somebody else might be able to stop, but this person might not be able to stop. So what might be possible for somebody to do, it may not be possible for somebody else to do.

Because then the landscape is different. Yeah. Go ahead. Yes. So, basically, you explained as a in correlation with, Virupikalpa.

And in the last part of your lecture, you explained, the 2 as quite independent. So, that mind mind goes, in other direction and intelligence goes in other direction. So I cannot understand the exact correlation or the Okay. I use the same example to explain the two points, but 2 are different points. Like, I give the diabetes example.

Like, somebody is not even convinced that sugar is the cause of diabetes. You know, diabetes can have so many different causes. There are so many people who don’t take sugar, still they get diabetes. I know this person is eating sugar everyday throughout their life. They not got diabetes.

So, you know, you are actually you are, you know do you hate sugar? That’s why you’re telling me not to eat sugar? So if I’m not convinced, that’s completely one different thing. But somebody says, I’m convinced sugar is bad for me, but the cravings that come, I just can’t bear them. So there are 2 different things.

I use the same example to illustrate a point that, for somebody, the if they think if somebody knows this floor is too steep, they will not even think of going down that floor. But if somebody is actually thinking the floor is not very steep, then what is the harm? So that misconception. So the same example can be used for both, but there are 2 distinct things. Thank you.

Here? There’s a yeah. Okay. Where is the mic? Yeah.

Hi, Krishna. Like, I’m I’ve heard from the class that, you know, when the mind is weak, we have we have low in confidence. And when the intelligence is weak, we have low in conviction. Like, in Malaysia more than confidence, let’s put the word hope. Hope.

Hope is less. Confidence is there, but word confidence has many different connotations. Hope is we just don’t have much hope. Sometimes in our personal case or any devotee case that we find we see that sometimes when we are going in the low sleep that through our intelligence, through Shastra, we can understand that we’re actually going through that path and then we understand the consequences also that what is about to happen that where where the path is leading to. And then but even after realizing that having such thing that it becomes an ability to actually do something about it.

And sometimes even if you We’ll talk about that in the future session. Okay. Because that’s a different topic. So we have to find some source of strength that will keep us going on. So sometimes in that particular area, we may not, we just don’t feel like chanting.

No matter we may understand how important the holy name is. Maybe then we push ourselves, but if we can’t, then we may decide, okay, maybe maybe I’ll read something, maybe I’ll hear some kirtan. See, the mind is like a child. Sometimes the parents have to force the child, but you cannot force the child beyond a particular limit. So we’ll talk about that inner negotiation that we need to do, and we’ll talk about, about niamakshama, and we’ll also be talking about one more that is, Gantarla.

And our motivation goes up and down. But we have to negotiate over there to find out what is the how can I move ahead? Yes, please. Contemplating on right things, why it seems to be artificial and austerity? Means on negative things, it is it seems natural.

Easy. Okay. Why does contemplating on, good things seem artificial austerity? Well, that’s because the conditioning is there. Whatever we have contemplated on in the past is not necessarily right or wrong.

It applies to right or wrong, but doesn’t apply only to that. Say, if you have studied a subject before, then learning more about that subject is relatively easier. You already if suppose yeah. Both if if we have, suppose, both familiarity and interest in a subject, then to study that subject further is easier. But suppose if we don’t have familiarity, we don’t have interest, then taking that subject, Let’s say, it’s it’s going to be very difficult.

So for us, we don’t have to be too hard on ourselves. We may not have contemplated philosophical or spiritual truths previously, and we don’t have that habit. So we building that habit, it does take time. It does take effort. It will happen, but the if we don’t have the habit, it is going to be difficult.

So just accept that. So try to associate, try to make the contemplation easier in some ways. Maybe discuss with some other devotee. Whenever you’re going to read, you know, try to if you find if there’s some other devotee, how do they contemplate? Hey.

I did think about it from this way. So sometimes if you are hearing a class on a particular verse, I find that if you want to develop contemplativeness, sing synergizing our reading and hearing is very helpful. Now we often hear many classes, and it’s good. But if somebody has given systematic classes on one section of scripture, then we read that section and we hear the classes on that section. Then what happens is not only we get better understanding, oh, this verse, it can be thought from this perspective also.

This was this point can be looked at from this perspective also. So Prabhupa says to study scripture scrutinizingly means to study it from different perspectives. So when we see, okay, it can be thought of like this also. It can be thought of like this also. See, contemplating, it’s a habit, but like every other habit, it may need some help in developing it.

Cycling is a habit, but we have to practice cycling. But sometimes we also have to learn, you know, what does it mean to be balanced? You know, I don’t lean this way. I don’t lean to the I don’t paddle too much on one side too with too much force. Things need to be learned.

So there’s practicing, but there’s also learning some things which are which may not just not know. So I think seeing how others contemplate can also be very helpful in developing the habit to contemplate. And as we keep doing it, it will become easier with time. Thank you. Yes, please.

Mic. Yeah. There. Way behind, I think. We’ll take 1 or 2 questions, and then we’ll stop.

Hare Krishna Prabhu. Where is the mic? Okay. Yeah. We have heard that, there are 2 types of conviction, borrowed conviction and personalized conviction.

Also, we have, heard that there are 2 types of, and Shastri. So, does it, does borrowed conviction match exactly to and, personalized conviction match to Shastrikshradha, or they can be a combination? I I think there are 2 different categories itself. There are 2 different ways of looking at things. And as far as what I have seen, I have not seen Prabhupada really make a categorical difference between lokikshasda Shraddha and Shastrikshraddha.

So if you see the Bhagavad Gita itself talks about faith in the 3 modes. 17 chapters and it doesn’t say that faith in Shastric or faith in Tamagunai is Tamasik. Somebody can have faith in Tamasik Shastra. In Shastra also there is Tamasik Shastra. There is Shastra which talk about animal sacrifice and intoxication.

So you can have Shastriya Shranda and there can be Tamasik Shranda also. Isn’t it? So there are many technical classifications in scripture, and we have to see which technical classifications are helpful for us. Otherwise, we can get lost in technicality. So, now if we personally find that categorization, Shastri and lokik, helpful, then that is good.

But, you know, I have interacted with people from different traditions. After I start travelling abroad, I go for interfaith conferences. And sometimes I may I find that, Christian’s faith in God, their conception of God may not be very clear, but a Christian’s faith in God may be much stronger than a devotee’s faith in Krishna. Although the conception may be very clear. Now you may say that, okay, you can say Bible is Shastra, but then you can go into that whole discussion of what exactly Shastra.

But the point is that faith, you cannot just, faith is a very subtle and profound thing. You cannot imprison faith within the parameter of Shastra. That how faith is triggered. In our own scriptures, we have examples of people who had great knowledge of Shastra and had no faith in Shastra. Isn’t it?

We have the Yajik Brahmanas. They could quote scripture, they could go to Yajnas, but they didn’t have much they had knowledge of scripture, but how much faith did they have in scripture? Shukaracharya was a pandit, but he told Balima Raj to not surrender to Vamandhi. So my point is that, you can say that it is Shastri Gyan, it is not Shastri Shanda. Okay, then how do we know?

No. The Shanda is inside me. How will you really know? Is it Lauki or Shastri? Does it just come from Shastri statements alone?

Contemplating the scriptural statements? Now does that mean then that if somebody is reading a translation of Shastra, then the if you’re if you only read translation, you’re not read the original, you don’t know the language, then is your shanda not Shastri? See the idea of Shastra, we should not limit it so much. Shastra is not just a book. Shastra is a message.

And it is not that Krishna spoke once in Shastra. It is not that God speaks one time in history and after that God forever falls silent. God is constantly speaking. God is speaking in our hearts. God is speaking in others hearts.

God may be even speaking through words around us. So the we have the the Advud Brahmana or the Avanti Brahmana who has 24 gurus. No. He’s learning from nature. So, you know, how Krishna can give us faith?

It’s a very complex thing. So let’s not reduce it to Shastra. So somebody can get faith by studying nature. So nature is also another book of God. So one book of God is scripture.

Nature can also be another book. Now that doesn’t mean everybody who studies nature will gain faith. The Darwin studied nature and lost faith. So so that is also possible. Ultimately, each person has to choose what they do.

They have to choose to turn towards Krishna. So it’s important that ultimately, the Shastri and Ishkarsha, that that So we have to study so that we can get to the conclusion of scripture. And how do we get how we get there? That depends. Okay?

Yes. Actually, one part actually. Actually, if our conviction goes like this that, yes, there is a materialist who is working so hard for material goals, so why should we not work a bit harder or a bit more austere for the purpose of satisfying Krishna, pleasing Krishna? So this type of conviction, does it stay long? See, it’s difficult to say which conviction stays long.

Was Dhruva Maharaj’s desire, even his determination. We say his determination was great. Was it material or spiritual? Material. Well, it’s very difficult to say.

The the the the source in the sense that the cause of the determination was material. But then so many people get insulted. How many people still get that? You know, I’m going to do this to get go to the austerities to get evil. So it was it material in terms of the situation, or was it just his own constitution, his own mind body, subtle body?

Then you can say the object was Krishna. So because the object was Krishna, so it is spiritual. Or after he changed, that time it became spiritual. Until then it was material. So and I find that this classification of material spiritual, sometimes it we make it very categorical.

But if it is instead of focusing on material spiritual, we focus on what is favorable to our bhakti and what is unfavorable for our bhakti. So whatever he did, it was favorable for his relationship with Krishna. So I would say that, if somebody is surrounded by people who are materialistic and they seeing how hard they work inspires a person. Then who knows? We have devotees who have created artha forum.

But there are these are all some people have just, like, enormous passion and enormous ability for business. So we have one devotee. He is considered a start up genius. He has only, like, several more than a 100 companies have started and made them big. So he says that you it goes to wealthy people and says that whatever money you want to earn, how much do you think you need for living comfortably?

Somebody will say I want, I want a bank balance of 20 crores. They assume these people are very wealthy. So okay. You aim for a business where you get 40 crores. And if you get anything above 20 crores, you will give 50 percent in charity.

And people feel inspired by that. And there are many business people who have actually succeeded that way. And then they they feel that now I am earning not just for greed or for just my own possessiveness, I’m earning to give in charity. So now now after that say they give charity to build a big temple. So was their ambition material or spiritual?

Doesn’t matter. No. It’s favorable. So such people may say, oh, such people may say, okay. No.

That person that person multiplied their business. I also want to multiply my my business. So they may get inspiration from someone else. They may also get inspiration from somebody who’s given charity. So what gives from where inspiration will come, it’s very difficult to say.

So certainly, we need a devotee association to keep our goal fixed on Krishna. But we all need, energizers, you could say. So if we are not associating with devotees at all and we are constantly looking at materialists, we may get inspiration from materialists to work hard, but after some time that materialism will infect us. I’m working hard for the same purposes that the materialistic people are working for. So there are 2 different things.

There is the there is the the destination, and there is the energy or the fuel or the pace. So the fuel, energy, pace, we can get by looking at people in the world. But the destination, that conviction won’t stay by just by looking at people of the world. For that, we need to associate with devotees. Clear?

Thank you, Prabhu ji. Yes, Prabhu. We’ll just we’ll finish in 2 minutes now. Yeah. Hi, Krishna, Prabhu.

My question is again related to the borrowed convictions. So you had mentioned that, when we actually, hear or study Shastras or hear from, a senior devotee, then it’s not that we purchase all the convictions. A part of it we might purchase. But then, like, as a sadhaka grows in his spiritual life and he also studies scriptures like Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita, and he sees that, he has not applied everything, but at least he started applying few things and it has started working. So, so this is a kind of way by which we develop faith that at least what I was told is actually true.

I’m not at at a stage that I’m able to, get convinced and apply it. That’s fine. So same applies for even that, for, exalted souls like Shlapraupa and spiritual masters. So now I want to ask that you mentioned we have to do contemplative, study and also hearing. So that would change, that would by that process, we will be able to borrow more convictions.

So, it appears that, if there could be some way by which we can increase the percentage of borrowed convictions, that’s a very healthy stage because then every hearing and reading is very, very, productive. So, is contemplation the only way to increase the percentage of convictions, or could you help us by ways by which we can increase the percentage of convictions? Because we have faith that what is being told is true. Okay. So is contemplation the only way?

Not necessarily. See, sometimes we also have to go through certain life experiences ourselves. So, like, the same, book we may read 1 year after bhakti and same book we read 10 years after bhakti, And we’ll see it in a different light because we have gone through different experiences. So at certain stages in our life, certain points may strike us. So I don’t think we can accelerate that process too much.

We sometimes we have to ourselves evolve to a particular level to gain some understandings. So can we increase or can we accelerate? To some extent, we might be able to. So having some forum for reflecting on scripture. Contemplation is one thing.

Maybe just discussing with different devotees, especially if you have some like minded devotees talking with them. Oh, okay. This point, I didn’t think so much about this. That’s also interesting point. I think like minded association can be very helpful because then we start we can relate with that person and then we can relate with their convictions also.

And those convictions can become closer to becoming internalized for us. So say for example, if our focus is youth outreach, somebody’s conviction is centered on book distribution. You can talk with them and we’ll get some inspiration how dedicated they are to book distribution. But we may not feel that conviction coming to us. Book distribution is the best way to serve Krishna spread Krishna’s mission.

We say, okay, that’s one way. It’s important. But maybe that’s not the best way. We may not get that conviction. So I think like minded association and reflecting in like minded association is also very helpful.

Okay. Thank you. Yes, Pravo. You had a point? Hi, Krishna.

Good evening. Sometime it so happens that once the intellect is in control of mind, things go very nicely. No. We are centered. We will come.

We are connected with the divine, connected with the Lord Krishna consciousness. But when mind takes over, in some situation, and then we feel lots of misery and then we regret also, how to make intellect strong enough so that mind doesn’t take over, especially in case of calmer, krodha, lower? Well, we discussed developing convictions, hearing more regularly, speaking, writing. These are ways to develop the intelligence. And sometimes we’ll talk more about the mind also.

Sometimes the mind needs to be accommodated. We are not meant to make our mind our slave or make our mind our friend. There’ll be a separate topic. We’ll discuss in a future in the class today.

Thank you very much.