Can sexuality and spirituality go together?

To be here with all of you today. And in this particular verse, one of the key themes of the Srimad Bhagavatam is being discussed. And among these themes, often the focus is on understanding the nature of the purpose of human life and how that purpose is to be achieved. Sorry. My screen is getting disconnected over here.

Okay. Okay. So here, Krishna Prabhupada talks about how people seek pleasure through sensuality in general and sexuality in particular and how that disappoints them, that frustrates them. And then he talks about how life is meant for a higher purpose. So I’ll talk about broadly the topic of sexuality and spirituality that I’ll talk about this in three parts.

So I’ll talk about why sex, why spirituality, and how they can go how together. Can they go together? If they go together, how do they go together? So let’s discuss these three points one by one. Now, in general, most people don’t suddenly wake up and turn towards scripture to learn.

They learn from their parents. They learn from their observation. They learn from other people. They read books, and eventually they may come towards sacred books. So now biologically speaking, if we consider the purpose of sex, you know, at one level that a functional level, we can say the purpose is reproduction.

Now, of course, there is pleasure over there. So these two, sometimes we put them as recreation and procreation. So recreation is enjoyment. Procreation is begetting children. Now these two are naturally in one sense there.

We could say that in the past, now from a biological perspective, this is vital. Without it, there’ll be no survival of the species. No. Not only our dynasty would die out, our own entire humanity would die out. And this is an increasing concern in the world, especially the Western world.

In the past, the fear was overpopulation. You come to India, we feel there are so many people over here. So but this was the past fear. Now the current fear especially in the Western world is depopulation. That people are not having children.

Now that doesn’t mean they’re not having sex. They’re just not having children, and they’re artificially separating the two. But we are not going to go go to sociological reason for that. The point is that this is vital. And in the western world, there is a fear that the only way the western economy and western society will con continue is by immigration.

But those who immigrate, if they don’t integrate in the society, then the Western world will no longer be, the Western world. It may become a replica of the place from where those immigrants are coming, And that could be a matter of concern. But let’s consider these two purposes that there is there is pleasure and there is procreation. Now, if when you look at a pendulum, you make it only into only pleasure. Then what happens?

Then the procreation comes in the way. Because what happens is if I only want pleasure, then oh, there’s gonna be procreation and people are worried. They will try birth control. They will do various things. And they try to get rid of procreation.

And that leads to a whole huge industry now. Now it is it is so ironic in one sense in today’s society. Ironic is there are people in anxiety. Some people in anxiety, they don’t want progeny. They want to unite physically for the sake of pleasure, but they don’t want progeny.

And there are other people in anxiety. These are who can’t get progeny. Infertility is becoming a huge problem. And one of the highest paying professions in the medical sphere right now is, the whole fertility industry. Some people are calling it the fertility industrial complex now.

So the idea is that some people may seek procreation. Now we will see that nowadays, with only procreation is the purpose, then some of you may be aware that there are not only various kinds of, like, IVF and others, which may be necessary in particular situations, but there are also these, egg banks and sperm banks that are kept. So where women want to pursue a career in their youth, and when they are 45, 50, when they’re established in their career, then the eggs which are saved in the banks provided by the companies where they’re working, then those eggs will be harvested, with some man’s egg, either their husband or their partners or some other viable egg. So what is happening is we sometimes people are using technology to bring about what they call as birth control. They’re using technology to now it is that not that they don’t want sexual pleasure over there, but the point is that the body is no longer able to procreate, and they try to procreate in some way or the other.

So now Prabhupada in this purport mentioned that that one is meant to enjoy according to the principles of dharma. That so pleasure and procreation both can go together. Now when we talk about pleasure also, there are different degrees of pleasures and we’ll talk about that shortly but at a basic level we could say that the purpose of sex is pleasure is procreation and pleasure. Now which is more clearly in today’s world, the pursuit of pleasure is much much more. However, now let’s look at it from the perspective of procreation, specifically human procreation.

Among all species in the world in that we know of, it is human babies who need the most care. Without such care, human babies won’t survive. Now cat babies, kitties need care, dog babies, puppets, puppies need care, but they don’t need that much care. Human babies need an enormous amount of care and they need care not just for a few months, but for several years. Parenting is probably among the most important human responsibilities.

And every religious tradition talks about the importance of parents in shaping the character of children. So that even if we put aside shaping the character, just the biological survival itself, when there’s a newborn baby, it is not even a 24 by seven work. It is a 20 fourseven work for often more than one person. So they need huge amount of care. And that’s why, especially among biologically among mammals, there is this whole phenomena of what they call as there is procreation, but along with procreation, there has to be pair bonding.

Pair bonding means what? The male and the female both need to unite, not just at a physical level, but also in the form of procreation can happen from a physical union. But for pair bonding, there has to be a relational bond, relational union. They need to form a relationship by which both of them, they unite in taking care of the progeny. In the Western world and even in India, there are many places that are single parents.

Many times it’s single mothers, sometimes it’s single single fathers. It’s an extremely difficult, task for one parent to take care of children. So pair bonding is very important. Many times people ask, questions. You know, what is the need for marriage?

Well, one need for marriage is that it is only marriage that animals don’t get married. Why do humans need to get married? So do we want to make animals the standard of how we live? Even if we want to, biology does not listen to that. The way biology is arranged, human babies need far more care and that care is possible when there is a committed relationship.

And in many ways, as marriage, as institution goes down, then what happens is naturally procreation goes down. And procreation goes down, then a whole sort of like depopulation happens and many other problems start coming up. So from the perspective of biology itself, the pair bonding is important. And in now whenever there is a pair bonding in the West, there was around the nineteen forties, and it went on for quite some time. When Prabhupada went to came to America, this was what happened?

Yeah. That was the peak of that situation. That was called the sexual revolution. And in that sexual revolution came the idea that we should have free law. Now free law was basically a euphemism for free sex.

And they said, Oh, religion has put old fashioned bonds on us to restrict us from enjoyment. But, actually free love is an oxymoron. So say use the word free love that is like saying somebody is a brilliant fool. Why? Because love in a sense is a bond.

And when we say it’s a bond, that itself creates restriction. When a man and a woman, if there is real love, they form a bond, then that means there is a commitment, and they don’t, see other people. So he or she is a euphemism for many more things. So so the idea is that free love is an impossibility. Love, Now love can be given freely, but if there has to be a loving relationship, then that loving relationship has a bond.

So now that bond is formalized through marriage. So this without this, the problem would be that there would be just, even from a biological perspective, if there is no commitment to taking care of children, which requires decades, then there will be no children or children will be uncared for. And these are the two problems sociologically in the West. Sociological problems in the West are twofold. One is that there is depopulation, which is now becoming more and more alarming.

And Japan and other countries are this is a very alarming situation. China is also alarming situation. But China is because of a different reason. They forcibly tried to have one child by by by fiat. Now they’re trying to change it.

But the other is that uncared for children. And when the children are uncared for, then what happens is they become delinquents. They get into bad habits. They hurt themselves. They hurt others.

And that is they become self destructive. They even become destructive. So many of these school shooters that are there in America, it’s tragic. Some people say guns are to blame. However, it’s more of mental health issue and poor parenting issues and many other issues that they’re involved in it.

But the point is, this is a serious problem. So leave alone the spiritual perspective. If you consider the purpose of sex itself, if it is procreation, then that is definitely one purpose. And if procreation is there, there has to be a certain level of commitment in the relationship. And that commitment is possible only when there is a certain level of regulation.

And so even from a biological perspective, there has to be regulation of the sexual urge. Now when we talk about pleasure, and the pleasure can be at different levels. There is a physical pleasure. Physical pleasure is that the sexual urge that the hormones are secreted and that brings some pleasure. Now higher than that is what you can say the emotional pleasure.

Now emotional pleasure, you can call it also the relational pleasure. Now life is tough, and we may have many friends. We may live in a large community, but if there is a close bond with one person, that can be a great help. And for many people, that may be an indispensable need. Now now there can also be spiritual pleasure, And this is where we’ll move towards spirituality at the second point.

But the current situation is that if you consider this physical and emotional pleasures, even if you put aside the physical spiritual pleasure right now, so what happens is in the pleasure associated with sex. So if somebody wants too much physical pleasure on only, then what will happen is they will go away from the emotional pleasure. The relational let’s not call it emotional. Relational pleasure. Because if one is simply seeking physical pleasure, then one will start thinking, no.

Why be with the same person? I’m getting the same thing. Now, of course, if somebody goes with another person also, ultimately, biologically, it is the same thing. But at least the mind has that can have that illusion that there is something new over there. So what has happened is when the physical pleasure alone is sought, there is enormous loneliness and insecurity.

There’s at a biological in a sociological level, Harvard Medical School, and many other schools have studied how actually the so called free free love had a long term result. Many of these people who have one night stand and are just indiscriminate in their sexual activity end up feeling very lonely and insecure. They know that I am using others and others are using me. And ultimately, no one cares for each other. So leave alone the spiritual side.

One has to if one seeks the physical pleasure alone, then one will have to lose out on the relational pleasure and if one has to seek the relational pleasure, then one has to eventually outgrow the physical pleasure. That means that one needs to initially there is a lot of attraction will be there at a physical level, but eventually what needs to happen is that one recognizes that there is much more to life. And one if the as the relationship develops, then one starts seeing the other person not just as a source of physical gratification, but as a life partner. And this is where something could be now in romantic movies, they talk about happily ever after. Well, there is no ever after because we are all going to die.

In the Christian church, they have the idea till death do us part. That till the point of death, we will be together. So that is possible only when one prioritizes the relational pleasure over the physical pleasure. So Srila Prabhupada talks about how in this purport that if somebody is seeking only physical pleasure, then there is if that is the sole expectation with which one is entering into the relationship, then there will be separation. There will be devastation in fact.

So there may be physical pleasure, but over a period of time, the relational pleasure that needs to be that needs to become greater. Now the problem here may come up that is that as we spend time a lot of time with the other person, we start finding that, oh, that person has so many different sides, and there are so many sides that I don’t like. And then even the relational pleasure starts becoming difficult because we find that there are so many incompatibility. There’s an American comedian who said that, my wife and I, he said, we live in different rooms. We drive different cars.

We watch different TVs. We eat our food at different tables. We enter and exit the house through different doors. We are doing everything possible to keep our marriage together. Now there is no marriage there at all.

So marriage is just a hollow institution where there’s no relational connection. So the point I’m making is that one may seek a relational connection, but then the problem here might come is that we may say that too many differences. There will be incompatibility. Now, incompatibility, sometimes it can come from nature, but much more it comes from expectations. And that brings us to the point of so why spirituality?

I still doubt till now I talk about why sex? So why spirituality? Ultimately, we human beings. When we say humans and animals, humans versus animals, there is science, especially biology, which says that we are just the same, That we are just evolved animals. That’s all.

We are nothing but animals. Then there is Christianity, which holds the idea that we are the only beings with souls. That their idea is that animals don’t have souls or at least they don’t have the kind of souls that we human beings have, which are the souls that can know God and love God. So now human animals relationship or difference whatever you want to say, we’re talking about here. So in between is the understanding that that we are both same and different.

Applies over here also. How are we same? We are same in the sense that we also have to take care of our body. Body there are body’s urges, there are body’s needs. These have to be taken care of.

However, that we are different because we have an evolved consciousness. And because of this evolved consciousness, what happens is we seek pleasure and the pleasure that we seek is more than what the body can provide. What the body can naturally provide, we humans seek more pleasure than that. And that is why we try to eat food so much. Cow cow eat the same grass all the time.

We seek more and more pleasure. And what happens is, if we do not know about spirituality, then we seek more pleasure at the physical level than what body can provide naturally. We try to artificially extend the pleasure. So when we seek more pleasure than what the body can provide, we can go two ways. One is we can go technologically or we can go spiritual.

Technological means what? That when the body’s capacity to to enjoy decreases, take some pills, and try to use various things to increase one’s, capacity to enjoy. So there is this drug called Viagra, which people use to try to increase their sexual potency. So Jaiduet Marajan wrote a letter article called he said human beings don’t need Viagra. What they need is Vairagya.

That we need to eventually outgrow this craving for bodily pleasure. We want more pleasure than what the body gives And how will we find that more pleasure? By looking for pleasure beyond the body. And that is at the level of the soul. So now this brings us so at the level so to find spiritual happiness.

So there is there is you could say physical happiness. I’m using the word physical over here as differentiate from material because the relational emotional happiness can be material spiritual. We look at that. Now physical happiness comes through gratification. Prabhupada uses the word sense gratification, but any kind of gratification, that gives physical pleasure.

Now spiritual happiness comes through purification. Purification means that there are many cravings within us. So what happens is we can say we are sorry, purification. So we are souls in physical bodies. We are the body and we are the soul.

Now the soul the soul can rise higher towards spiritual happiness, but the body goes towards physical happiness. So now what we need to do is that around the soul, there is the mind. And this mind is filled with many impressions. Now those impressions can either drag us down or those impressions can lift us up. So purification essentially means we replace replace the mind’s impressions so that instead of looking for physical pleasures, we start looking for higher spiritual happiness.

So it is only this that can satisfy us. Why? The simple reason is twofold. Why only spiritual happiness can satisfy us? One reason is the quantity.

Quantity means that it alone will be lasting. Now even if somebody says, who has seen the spiritual world and who has seen, God in the spiritual world and what happens they are going to find. So that’s why I have not used the word everlasting. If one becomes spiritually evolved, even in this life, they can find some happiness by inner contemplation, by absorption in the divine. And even modern science is talking more and more about the benefits of meditation.

Now like the world yoga day has become very famous. The Indian government has proposed that we should have a world meditation day and December 21, which is the day of the winter solstice, has now been declared the world meditation day. A lot of celebrations are being prompted for both inner peace and outer peace. So the idea is even at this level in this world, if there’s a little purification, one can experience deeper satisfaction. So spiritual happiness is actually greater in quantity.

And it is greater means it will last longer, and it is deeper in quality. Quality means what? It will actually be more meaningful. Over a period of time, even if a person has a lot of sensual physical pleasure, they will just get exhausted. They will get bored with it.

It will just become so meaningless And that’s why when people keep seeking this meaningless pleasure, then they have to seek it in more and more extreme ways. But when there’s there’s deeper in quality means it connects with our core. It goes deep into us and goes beyond our physical layer, the mental layers to the deepest core of who we are and activates the soul’s potentiality for happiness. So spiritual happiness is much greater And that achieving that lasting happiness, which is which is greater in quantity and that much more meaningful happiness, which is deeper in quality, richer in quality, that is the purpose of life. So now that brings us to the we could talk much more about spirituality, but let’s come to the concluding part now that how can these two go together?
That that how can sexuality and spirituality go together? So this is where the key comes up that broadly speaking, We could put it in many ways, but let’s put it this way. That at the materialistic level, there is only sexuality. And some people may claim that, Oh, you can be sexual and still you can be spiritual. But that’s a very superficial sentimental kind of spirituality because the consciousness gets locked in the body due to spirituality.
When the consciousness is locked in the body, one cannot really pursue spiritual reality as Krishna talks about it in 02/1944. Now on the other hand, some people may say we will pursue only spirituality. Now this is possible for a few people and across the world’s tradition and especially in the Vedic tradition, there was the renounced order. And it is also expected that everyone eventually take toward renunciation. And now only spirituality, it may seem impractical for most people.
So for a few people, it may be possible. But for most people, it can seem so impractical that if that is made the standard of spirituality, then most people will say, I just spirituality is not for me. Now the Bhagavatam does seem to sometimes make statements that there has to be only spirituality and one has to give up all sexual pleasure. And, yes, there is some truth to that at the ultimate level when when one gets purified. At the same time, we need to remember that the Bhagavatam is spoken to a person who is about to die.
And He is already around the world and therefore the Bhagavatam focuses on telling Parikshit Maharaj stories that will enable him to become absorbed single mindedly in Krishna. So now for most people, there will be a certain level of sexuality and there will be a certain level of spirituality. So now the in the within the last part, I’ll talk about the final part. How these two can they go together? To what extent can they go together?
So Krishna in seven point tenses, dharma aviruddho bhuteshu kamos mienth Bharathar Shiva. So the thing is for the both of these to go together, they has to be regulated. If it’s unregulated, then it’s impossible for a person to have sexuality and spirituality together. Now, on the other side, if you want to consider spirituality, the spirituality has to be engaged with the world. If the two are to go together, that means that if a person is either naturally very renounced or artificially disengaging themselves from the world, then it will be difficult for both these aspects to go together.
There has to be a certain recognition that I am engaging in the world, and because I’m engaging in the world, so I have to take responsibility to the world. I was visiting UK recently, and I was at one devotee’s home. And he said that, you know, tomorrow is my wife’s wedding anniversary. I said, what do you mean your wife’s wedding anniversary? Isn’t it your wedding anniversary?

He said, all this is a sentimental. I don’t believe in all these things. I was I didn’t say anything at that time. But then after that, he said that, you know, actually, my wife is not at all interested in spirituality. She does not support me.
And, I think, you know, Krishna has given me a a very disagreeable wife just so that I can become detached from material life. Now he’s he’s quite a young person, and he just had a child. I said, Prabhu, don’t jump to such conclusions. No. Sometimes we imagine that Krishna is teaching us the lesson that we it’s like our desire, we equate with Krishna’s lesson.

That means say, I don’t want to be responsible. And I say, oh, Krishna is teaching me that lesson. Now is it like that? Now I was visiting their homes. I talked with his wife also.
She’s very intelligent. She’s also I found quite interested in spirituality. But then what I found was that he she had some concerns or complaints about him, and she basically said that he was as a husband, there are some basic responsibilities and basic courtesies, basic expression affection expressions of affection and care that were there, and he was not doing any of those things. And because she felt that he was treating him so coldly, she was he was treating her so coldly, that naturally then she was also becoming bitter. So I said, Prabhu, whenever there are problems, in the in the Nyaya Shastra, it is described.
Nyaya is Vedic logic. Whenever there are problems and we are we are looking for the cause of the problems. When we seek the cause, we should always move first from the Drishta to the Adrishta. Drishta means what is visible, what is understandable to us by our intelligence. And then if it doesn’t make sense with our intelligence, then we move towards invisible causes.
So if, say, the Pandava’s house was burned, the fire now they could say, oh, this fire was just arrangement of destiny. But no. Vidura had warned them and they saw that actually Purushan was making all arrangements to, to send them on fire. So when the actual fire occurred, then you it did not have it was not destiny or this particular person’s cause. So sometimes if we focus too much on spirituality, then we may neglect the relational aspects and then that can make our life more difficult than it needs to be.
Prabhupada says that it’s a matter of expectations. Many people come into, a relationship with expectations. If expectation is of pleasure, We come with the expectation of pleasure, then what will happen is we will get frustration. However, we could go to the other extreme and expect misery. Then that can also lead to frustration.
If you go towards the other extreme and say, oh, this whole it can become like a self fulfilling prophecy. So the reality, however, is somewhere in between. The reality is that there are some there is some distress. The reality is there is some misery. There is some distress that is unchangeable or unavoidable.
Just by being in the material world to each individual, a different individual, and we will have different understandings is unchangeable, but there is also changeable or reducible. So we can say there is irreducible misery. Just two people being different will create some problems, but there is reducible misery. Reducible misery means that we need to understand each other and function in such a way that this misery gets reduced. Krishna points this in 12.15 where he says so I read this verse to this devotee and I told him that now see what does Krishna say over here?
So Krishna says, in any relationship, what will happen is, I will disturb you and you will disturb me and together we create a disturbed world and then a disturbed world. But we don’t have to do that. Krishna says those devotees are dear to him, those who don’t disturb others, and those who don’t be disturbed by others. So how do we do this? To come to this level, we need to understand that when we are forming a relationship that that the purpose of the relationship at one level, we may start the relationship with the idea of gratification.
But ultimately, it is the purpose of the relationship is also to assist us in our evolution. Evolution means that we both grow spiritually. So Prabhupada said one of the purpose of ISKCON is to bring all people closer to each other and closer to Krishna. So if there’s a relationship over here, the relationship is healthy. Two things will happen.
One is that the two people will come closer. They’ll come closer and they will move higher. Move higher means the Prabhupadas come closer to each other and come closer to Krishna. So when we understand that the relationships that we develop at the spiritual level, those are important. And earlier, I talked about the balance between the physical and relational pleasure.
Now let’s put it let’s bring in the spiritual part to it that when there is a spiritual connection, When we start seeing each others not just as see there is a physical connection, there is a really emotional connection, and there is a spiritual connection. So when there is a physical connection, we just see each other as as objects. As objects for gratification. Objects for stimulating our hormones and gratifying ourselves. When we see the emotional connection, then at that time, we have we see the other person as a shelter.
The other person should understand me. Other person should do this for me. Why are they not doing this for me? But when we see a spiritual connection, then we see that we are each other means to be supports for getting the supreme shelter. The husband does not think that I am going to give shelter to my wife and the wife does not think that I am going to seek shelter in my husband, but rather both of them understand that we are here to seek the supreme shelter.
So when this is happening, then in even if there is some diminution in the emotional connection, there is some diminution in the physical pleasure, Those things won’t matter because both of them will be pursuing that connection with Krishna. And when that connection with Krishna is there, then both of them as they come closer to Krishna. So I have my relationship with you. You you have my relationship with me. But I have my relationship with Krishna and you have my relationship with Krishna.
And relating with you helps me to become closer to Krishna and relating with you also helps me become closer to Krishna. And this say, there can be a spiritual foundation for the overall relationship in such a way that both people can come closer to each other and ultimately come closer to Krishna and ultimately attain Krishna. So I’ll summarize what I discussed today. Our topic was sexuality and spirituality. Can they go together?
Or how can they go together? The first point I discussed was how why sex? So we discussed at a basic level for all species, the purpose is procreation. Now there is also the some physical pleasure over there. There is recreation.
Now we discussed how these two can go towards extreme where there is only procreation and only recreation, and both can become problematic. Now, especially in humans, even at a biological level, for procreation to happen, there has to be not just the physical union, but also the relational union. Why relational union? Because there has to be air bonding. So because human human progeny need much more care than animal progeny.
So we discussed how if there is no relational bonding, then even at a physical level, there are problems. So there is this whole idea of free love and only thing it led to is loneliness. So now if somebody seeks only physical pleasure, then they will think why should I be only with the same person? If somebody thinks only emotional only relational pleasure, then the problem will be the other person might disappoint us, and we may lose out. So now we may feel why should I be with this person alone?

So then we discussed that we humans also need to have a spiritual dimension to our life. So why spirituality? Because we seek pleasure. And that is more than what the body can offer. Animals can eat the food that nature provide and be content, but we want more and more varieties of food, more and more gratification in food.
So we can seek this through technology, but that will ultimately be thwarted because the body’s limitation will come. Instead, we seek this to spirituality. We understand that there is a layer of being to us which is much deeper. A spiritual pleasure is greater in quantity because it lasts longer and it is greater in quality because it goes deeper to our core. Now how do we how can we bring sexuality and spirituality together?
So that was the last part where we discussed that the purpose is that ultimately we are together not just for procreation, not just for because procreation requires pair bonding, but we are together ultimately for purification. Now purification means that there is a soul. So there is a body, there is a soul. The soul wants to rise upward. The body drags us downwards.
And where we will go will depend on the impressions in the mind. So we need to in the human form of life, we wanna change the impressions. So these impressions, are they taking us upward or are they taking us downwards? Purification means upward impressions. Upward impressions are strengthened.

And for that purpose, during our life journey, you know, we seek a spiritual partner. So normally when we form a relationship, there may be some distance, but by spiritual growth, we come closer to each other and we come closer to Krishna. So come closer and go higher. That is the characteristic of a healthy relationship And to the extent we understand that we what is the expectation we commit? Commit a purpose.
If the purpose is self gratification, you know, if we as generally, men will seek physical gratification, they will get bored. Women will seek relational gratification, and they will feel dissatisfied. If we it’s either gratification of the purpose, then that will lead to frustration sooner or later. But if they understand the purpose is evolution that I want to evolve in my relationship with Krishna. So when we seek physical pleasure, when we seek relational pleasure, We seek physical pleasure, the men will see women as object.
When you seek relational pleasure, when women will see man as a shelter. But ultimately, when we seek spiritual pleasure, we understand that we are supports for each other so that we can get to the supreme shelter. And that is what the Krishna consciousness process as given in the Bhagavatam is ultimately meant to take us toward. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Are there any questions or comments? Hey, Krishna. Thank you so much for your so be blissful and, like, realizing this and so practical the the the karma and things like that. The video is still there, and so it comes back and eventually fall for it. So, you know, where is when to this And we see even in our move and our seniors, they have done so much of the other, but in certain point, they go go they go back to the old habit.
So how I mean, I don’t know. I I find it is like a like, never ending quest to find where is the balance. So there are some certain idea because we do cannot know it for Shivanam when I understand. And please correct me if I’m wrong. But if there’s any certainty where I know that what I’m doing, if this is what I’m supposed to not too much of the other, not too much of the other, but, you know, somewhere then.
Yeah. I think the key is that our spirituality needs to be sustainable. Now we talk about sustainable environment, sustainable growth, but often the spirituality that we practice is unsustainable. So that means we practice standards that are not sustainable over the long run. So what happened was our movement began the first generation as largely a monastic movement.
Monastic movement means that everybody lived in the monastery. Becoming a devotee meant moving into the temple. That was the understanding at that time. So now most of our devotees are not living in temples, but we have a generational jet lag. That means that the standard that were expected of monastics in the first generation are made the standard that are expected of everyone, Even those who are congregation devotees, and that’s not sustainable.
That is not sustainable even for monastics in the previous generation or to speak of us. So I think this is something which every individual has to decide on their own. That means in our okay. Why is my screen not being seen over here? Okay.
Anyway, I’ll just speak it. In our in our spiritual life, there are bonds and there are boundaries. Bond means that we want to connect with Krishna. And boundaries means that how much will I engage in other things while I’m connecting with Krishna. Now boundaries are required everywhere.
Even even if somebody has a non spiritual relationship, just if somebody wants to have a sustainable relationship at a material level also, man, woman need to have some boundaries when they function. Otherwise, adultery is one of the biggest causes of, of family breakdown. Also, the boundaries are required everywhere. Nobody can live without boundaries. The thing is that what boundaries will work for an individual that has to be decided by the individual.
Neither my Shiksha guru nor my Diksha guru can live in my place. They don’t have my mind. I have my mind, and I have to deal with my mind. They can help me. But Prabhupada says each one of us has has to fly our own plane.
Now that can be seen in two ways. One is that it is it is our responsibility. Nobody can grow spiritually for us, but it also means that we know what enemies we are facing. And sometimes the enemies will be so much that we can’t move forward. We have to take a step backward, lie low for some time.
So we have to fight our own war means that we have to decide how much we can fight at a particular amount of time. So Prabhupada says in the eighteenth chapter of the Bhagavata purport that the purpose of marriage is to make the mind peaceful so that we can focus on spiritual life. Now we may say that the mind never becomes peaceful. Well, that is true at one level, but at another level, what it means is that the mind is constantly agitated. It can be agitated, like say if you are fasting on Ekadashi.
Now if we eat too much food, then what happens is the mind is agitated because the greed for food is constantly consuming our mind. On the other hand, if we eat too little food, then also our mind gets agitated. So now how much food is too much food? And how much food is too little food? Each person has to find out on their own.
Nobody else can tell. No. You don’t eat more than two chapatis. Everybody has a different metabolism. So the idea that we say the amount of calories we’re taking and all calories we consume, that how much you are taking and how much you’re consuming, how much how much we are exhausting, that is something each one of us to find out if they want to be that that mathematical in the process.
But my point is, like that, with the with the with all our bodily urges, each one of us has to find out what is sustainable and function accordingly. So just like when we eat food, there is a range. Now the highest level could be that we eat food which is cooked by which is cooked by devotees, which is offered by devotees, which is maybe farmed and harvested by devotees, offered to the deities, and we take the food. And we could also have food that is bought commercially, offered in the mind, and taken if we had to go to some corporate dinner or somewhere like that, and we have to go there and we have to eat something. We will not we will if we go there, we will not eat meat.
So not eating meat is, like, the basic level of standard. So from there to eating food that is only offered for Krishna. So like that, you know, we can have various levels. There is sex within marriage, which is generally what Prabhupada talked about whenever he defined illicit sex at initiation ceremonies. Prabhupada talked about sex for only for procreation, in many of in books and many places, but it’s a spectrum.
So one can go toward the higher level, but say that is the boundary that is sex, house, or marriage? No. But from there, there’s an incremental level one will rise gradually. So the key is sustainability. Now how do we find out what how much food is too much?
How much food is too little? We’ll use our intelligence and we use our experience. And we don’t have to have a one zero attitude. It’s a gradual progression, and each person has to find out within what boundaries they can function. Does it answer the question?
Yes, So how do we develop our intelligence in such a way that we’re not able to I would say curiosity. Replace judgmentality with curiosity. Judgmentality is, oh, I’m so fallen. I’m so fallen. I’m so fallen.
I am so advanced. I am so advanced. I am so advanced. Both are being judgmental. One is out of ego.

The other is out of insecurity. So you consider pendulum. One extreme of the pendulum is insecurity. I’m so fallen. I’m so fallen.
I’m so fallen. The other extreme of the pendulum is ego. Oh, I’m such an advanced devotee. I I’ve I’ve done so much preaching. I’ve distributed so many books.
In between these two is humility. And one understanding of humility is simply curiosity. Humility is curiosity. There are some things about myself I know and there are many things about myself I do not know. So when we are able to sustain a particular level of renunciation or when we pathetically fail in sustaining a particular level of real renunciation, it’s not immediately labeling ourselves.
Oh, I’m such a great devotee. I’m a fallen person. Instead of that, just be curious. Okay. How was I able to do this for so long?
What were the factors that worked in my favor? When we succumb okay. What what happened exactly? What was my thought process inside? What were my external situations?
So when you say athato brahma jijnasa, that jijnasa is not just at the starting of spiritual life. That jijnasa has to go on throughout our spiritual life. So who is the Brahma? The Brahma is Bhagwan. The Brahma is also the Atma.
So be curious about ourselves. Observe ourselves. We hear classes. Take those classes and use that as an additional lens to look at ourselves. To learn more about ourselves so that we can understand what is sustainable for us, what is not sustainable for us.
So in one sense, we need to become like a guide for ourselves. The Bhagavatam in the eleventh canto, the Uddhavita says, ultimately, everyone has to become their own guru. So the commentators explain over there that it does not mean that we reject our guru, but by learning from our various gurus, it is we who have to learn to become our own guides. And how, if you were cultivating someone, how would you do that? No, you would be curious.
If, if we are trying to cultivate a new person and we become judgmental with that person, then we will not be able to cultivate them. We will put labels on that person, and that person will just feel locked, imprisoned by those labels. And then eventually, if they can’t, bear those labels, either because they are painful, because they are too negative or they are too exhausted. Oh, you’re the advanced devotee. And you’re just a serious dude.
Probably you performed a lot of Bakhti in your previous life. And that way we try we expect from that person a very high standard of commitment, and they can’t do that, and they will go away. So if we are truly guiding someone, we have to be curious. Try to understand where that person is and how we can guide that person. So similarly, be curious about ourselves.
Try to learn. So, ultimately, we are parts of Krishna. So when we study ourselves and using the word specifically study ourselves, we’re actually studying a part of Krishna. And if you don’t do it in the egoistic sense, saying how great I am, but just an objective sense that there’s so much we can learn, and that way we can grow in life. K?
So Thank you so much for your product. You’re very helpful. Thank you very much. Thank you. So Thank you.
Shri Pankaj, Shri Madhag I think we need to stop over here. Okay. Thank you so much.