Gita key verses course 23 – Can we be spiritual and rational? – Gita 07.07

Hare Krishna,
Today we will discuss two questions: Can a rational person be spiritual, and how can science and spirituality go together? At first, this topic might seem very basic. When we talk about subjects like the existence of the soul and God, they are often introduced in the early stages of spiritual courses, like those on self-discovery or the flow of the Gita. The Bhagavad Gita, however, was spoken in a culture where the existence of God was not questioned by the audience. When Krishna spoke to Arjuna, there was no debate about God’s existence. That’s why, in the Gita’s flow, there aren’t direct references to establishing the existence of God.

Instead, there is reasoning to establish the existence of the soul because that was directly relevant to Arjuna’s concerns. Arjuna’s immediate worry was how he could fight his loved ones, and one part of Krishna’s answer was that their souls are eternal, so they’re not truly being killed. The existence of God, however, wasn’t an issue for Arjuna or the audience Krishna was addressing. Today, we will focus not on proving the existence of God, but on how rationality and spirituality can coexist, particularly in relation to science.

In the Gita, Krishna states in verse 7.7:
“Māyā sarvam idam protam sūtra-māṇi-gana-iva”
This translates to: “Just as thread underlies and unifies all the pearls that comprise a necklace, similarly, there is the divine, the ultimate reality, Krishna, who underlies and permeates everything.”

This verse points to the fundamental understanding of God. Just as the pearls of a necklace are visible but the thread is not always easily seen, in nature, many extraordinary manifestations are visible, but what underlies them—the divine essence—is not always easily visible.

Three Parts of Today’s Discussion:

1. How rationality points to something more.
2. The three levels: rational, irrational, and trans-rational.
3. How science and spirituality can work together.

How Does Rationality Point to Reality Beyond Rationality?
Let’s first understand what we mean by rationality. Rationality refers to something reasonable, logical, and guided by reason. Human beings function in two primary ways in the world: through our beliefs (conceptions) and our actions (behaviors). These two factors—how we perceive the world and how we act upon it—shape our interaction with reality. If both beliefs and actions are guided by reason, then this approach to the world is called rationality.

The opposite of rationality is irrationality. In the context of science, rationality is the focus. For example, when there is a pandemic, like the Black Plague in Europe centuries ago, people initially believed the plague might be caused by evil spirits. Some thought it was connected to cats, others to rats, but it was eventually understood to be caused by germs. This rational understanding led to scientific progress.

Science focuses on finding explanations that are based on empirical observations or can be logically inferred from those observations. This is the core of rationality, and science has made tremendous advancements by using rational methods. But there are some questions that rationality cannot answer.

Questions Rationality Cannot Answer: One of the primary questions rationality cannot answer is: Why does rationality work at all? Why should the universe be rational and orderly? If the universe is the result of unguided, random subatomic particles, why should these particles organize themselves in ways that are rationally intelligible? Even more perplexing: why should our minds, which are thought to be a product of these unguided natural forces, be structured to work according to reason?

This question points to something deeper. Rationality itself depends on an underlying order or structure, but why should such an order exist? And why should our minds be capable of grasping that order? Rationality and logic seem to point to something more than just random, chaotic forces. This is where the limitations of rationality begin to show.

The idea here is that in the world outside, consider Newton observing an apple fall, which led him to formulate the equation f = G(m1 * m2) / r². Now, why should objects follow specific rules like this? And do mathematical constructs actually exist in nature? We can argue that basic operations like addition and subtraction exist in nature, but what about more complex mathematical concepts, like imaginary numbers or integral calculus? Do they exist in the natural world? The answer is no. So, why does the working of nature correlate with these constructs?

If math is something created by our minds, and nature exists independently, then why should there be any correlation between what we think up in our minds and how the world works? This is a mystery that many mainstream scientists have pondered. Nobel Laureate Eugene Wigner put it this way:
“The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve. We should be grateful for it and hope that it will remain valid in future research, and extend, for better or for worse, to our pleasure, even though perhaps also to our battlement.”

This quote, though somewhat complex, asks a simple question: Why does math work? This is a question for which reason itself has no answer. If we consider the evolutionary worldview, all living beings are geared for survival, and nature is an arena where everyone struggles to survive. We are essentially biological robots driven by survival and reproduction. Given this, why should we even have the capacity to think abstractly in mathematical terms, or ponder life’s ultimate questions

If Newton was simply a product of unguided evolution, why, when the apple fell, didn’t he just eat it and move on? Why think of anything beyond survival? Why should our minds be capable of abstract mathematical thought at all, and more importantly, why should nature follow mathematical principles?

Mathematics is foundational to rationality as understood by science, especially when expressed through mathematical equations. But here’s the point: rationality works, but rationality itself has no explanation for why it works. If we only consider rationality within the logic used in modern science, then there’s no natural explanation for why material nature should organize itself according to mathematical laws, or why our minds should be capable of rational thought, expressed in mathematical terms.

God and Rationality: How Do They Relate?
The key insight here is that God is not an explanation for the unexplainable; God is the explanation for explainability. A common atheist argument is that in the past, when people didn’t know why rain fell, they attributed it to the will of gods. Similarly, when diseases occurred, they imagined spirits causing it and tried to appease those spirits. The argument suggests that primitive people used the idea of God to explain things they couldn’t understand, and even today, some religious people might argue that science can’t explain certain things, and therefore we need God.

However, this is not the view expressed in the Bhagavad Gita. The Gita talks about how the universe works under the supervision of the Divine, but it presents God not as the explanation for the unexplainable, but as the reason why things are explainable at all. For example, why should falling objects follow a particular mathematical formula, as described by Newton’s gravitational equation? Or why should matter and energy be interchangeable in a specific way, as stated by Einstein’s famous equation E = mc²? Why do these equations work at all?

It’s crucial to understand that if we present God as merely filling gaps in scientific understanding, we risk falling into a “God of the Gaps” fallacy. This concept implies that there are gaps in science, and God fills those gaps. The argument goes that as science fills in these gaps, there will be no room left for God. However, the Gita teaches that the reason why things are explainable at all is due to the divine order that governs the universe.

The Bhagavad Gita gives us a vision of God that is not simply a “God of the gaps.” Rather, it presents God as the fundamental essence that underlies everything, including the gaps in our understanding. What we can understand, we understand by the grace of God, and what remains beyond our understanding signifies that there is a higher intelligence behind everything. God is the thread that weaves through everything, including the gaps in our knowledge.

This idea connects to the metaphor of God being like the thread in a necklace, which we mentioned earlier. God is not merely at the top of a hierarchy of beings. While we might think of God as the best among beings, with a hierarchy like head of district, head of state, and so on, this is only a partial understanding of God. God is not just the best being, but the basis of all being. Without God, nothing would exist. God is the very existence that makes all existence possible.

If we focus only on the pearls in a necklace, we may never notice the thread, which is essential for the necklace’s existence. Similarly, we might question, “If God created everything, who created God?” This question, often seen as a “knockout” argument, actually reveals ignorance. Asking who created God is like asking, “Who made a circle circular?” A circle is by definition circular, and similarly, God, by definition, is the eternal existence that underlies all being. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that He is the existence that underlies all existence (Bucha 9:10, 39). God is the cause of all causes, and nothing exists without God.

To further explain this idea, consider the example of a child reading Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone. If the child is intrigued by the story and later learns that J.K. Rowling is the author, they may wonder, “Where is J.K. Rowling in the book?” The answer is that she is not a character in the book, but she exists outside of it. She created the timeline, the characters, the settings, and the plot, but she does not exist as a character within the story itself. In the same way, God does not exist within nature. God is not like an undiscovered satellite around Jupiter waiting to be found. Rather, God exists outside the domain of time and space.

When we ask, “Who created God?” this presumes that God exists within time. But God creates time; God is not created by it. This is why the question itself is irrational—it assumes that God is within the realm of time, which is not true. Just as J.K. Rowling exists outside her books, God exists outside the domain of time, and we must understand that God is not a person like us. God exists in a different category of being.

Now, let’s move forward and look at God and science. God is not an alternative explanation to science, but the explanatory foundation for all explanations. The more science advances and uncovers astonishing truths about reality, the more our conviction in God’s existence can grow. For example, today’s smartphones have more processing power than all the computers in the world did in the 1960s. We marvel at how fast technology works, but the principles behind it were not created by science—they were discovered. The semiconductor effect, which allows for microchips and telecommunications, existed long before we understood it.

While we appreciate the brilliance of scientists and researchers, we must recognize that the foundational realities—such as the semiconductor effect—were not created by science. If there were no semiconductor effect, there would be no electronics or telecommunications. The difference between how something works and why it exists is crucial to understanding God’s role in the universe.

The Relationship Between Technology and God

Why does the semiconductor effect exist at all? Why are some elements conductors and others insulators? Technological advancements do not challenge God’s existence because God is not an alternative explanation to science or technology. Instead, God is the foundational basis of all explanations. Technology works within the framework of natural laws, but these laws exist because of a higher intelligence—God.

Rational, Irrational, and Trans-Rational

Let’s move on to the idea of rational, irrational, and trans-rational. We usually operate within the rational realm, using reasoning and logic to understand the world. Irrational behavior, on the other hand, is when someone makes illogical or unreasonable arguments that don’t stand up to rational scrutiny. Trans-rational, however, refers to something that transcends rationality—something that rationality cannot fully grasp. This means that rationality, although useful, has its limits.

The Limits of Atheism and Rationality

Why does rationality work? From an atheistic worldview, there is no explanation for why rationality itself should work. Rationality depends on a logical structure, but within atheism, there’s no reason why things should be logical. Atheists often criticize religious practices, labeling them superstitions or illogical. But if we look at atheism through a rational lens, it presents its own contradictions. For example, atheism can explain how things work but fails to answer why they exist at all.

The Meaning of the Universe

Rationalism tries to explain how the world works—for instance, why an apple falls or how electricity flows. But when we ask, Why does the universe exist?, rationalism doesn’t provide a meaningful answer. It leads to the conclusion that life is pointless. A famous atheist physicist, Steven Weinberg, said that “the more the universe becomes comprehensible, the more it seems pointless.” Even when we break down the universe into logical, understandable components, it doesn’t seem to have any greater meaning. It’s like deciphering an ancient script—while individual words and symbols may make sense, the overall message seems meaningless.

Struggling with Meaninglessness

This is the result of an atheistic worldview. We may try to find small islands of meaning, but we’re often overwhelmed by an ocean of meaninglessness. We may be able to explain individual phenomena rationally, but the larger existential questions remain unanswered. This is where the trans-rational comes into play—an understanding that goes beyond mere reason.

Miracles and Trans-Rationality

Miracles are often seen as an example of the trans-rational. They are not against science; they are above science. For example, consider the famous miracle of Krishna lifting the Govardhan Hill. A rational person might question how someone could lift such a massive object. The explanation, however, is that Krishna didn’t need to find the center of gravity—he is the source of gravity itself.

Miracles temporarily suspend the normal laws of nature, which are governed by God. This does not mean that science is invalid—it simply means that rationality is not the ultimate reality. There are times when divinity intervenes in ways that go beyond rational explanation.

Rationality in Human Experience

This concept of the trans-rational also extends to human experiences. For instance, there are stories of parents displaying superhuman strength in emergencies—such as when a car crushes a child, and a parent somehow gains the strength to lift it. Normally, such an act would be impossible, but it points to a reality beyond pure rationality. These experiences suggest that there is more to existence than what can be explained through reason alone.

Spirituality does not reject rationality, but it acknowledges that rationality has limits. There is a divinity beyond what rationality can comprehend, and at certain points in history, and in human nature, this divinity may intervene. Rationality helps us understand the world, but it does not encompass all of reality. Spiritual experiences, like miracles, go beyond the realm of rational explanation, pointing to a higher power that operates outside the bounds of time, space, and reason.

Heroic Actions Beyond Rationality

Consider the example of the firefighters during the collapse of the Twin Towers. They knew the risks—the towers were burning, and they might collapse at any moment. Rationally, from a survival standpoint, they should not have gone in. But they did. Why? Because they weren’t just acting as biological machines driven by survival instincts. Their actions were driven by something higher—courage, compassion, and duty. This kind of behavior goes beyond pure rationality. It’s not foolishness; it’s heroism. While we shouldn’t seek death when it’s certain, risking one’s life for others is considered noble. Some of the most inspiring human actions are not driven by rationality alone but by higher values and ideals. This is where the trans-rational aspect of reality comes in—actions motivated by selflessness, love, and moral principles.

The Relationship Between Science and Spirituality

Now, let’s look at how science and spirituality can work together. Broadly speaking, science studies matter, while spirituality studies what matters.

• Science: It is the study of material objects and their interactions. Science enhances our ability to control the outer world. For example, understanding gravity or thermodynamics helps us develop technology and shape the world around us.
• Spirituality: It is concerned with understanding the deeper values and meanings in life—what is important versus what is not. Science cannot answer questions like “What should we prioritize?” or “What gives our lives meaning?” Spirituality provides the framework for us to make better choices and imbue our lives with purpose.

The Limits of Science in Determining Morality

One important distinction to make is that science alone cannot define moral values. This becomes clear when we consider the dangers of extremism, both religious and scientific.

While religious extremism is often associated with violence, extremism is ultimately a mental attitude that can be applied to any ideology, whether religious or scientific. For instance, Nazi Germany was one of the most scientifically advanced nations of its time. Adolf Hitler attempted to justify his vision of the world using science, particularly ideas rooted in Social Darwinism—a misapplication of Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

The Role of Darwinism in Nazi Ideology

Hitler’s autobiography, Mein Kampf, was heavily influenced by the concept of the struggle for existence, a central idea in Darwinian evolution. Social Darwinism misapplied the idea of survival of the fittest to human societies, which led to the belief that certain races were more “fit” than others. This idea was used to justify horrific policies, including:

• Sterilization of people with disabilities to prevent them from reproducing.
• Persecution of Gypsies (Roma) and Jews, who were seen as “unfit” races.
• The Holocaust, in which millions of Jews and others were exterminated in the name of racial purity.

The Ethical Dangers of Misusing Science

The key point here is that science alone cannot provide a moral framework. In Nazi Germany, scientific ideas were twisted to serve an ideology that led to immense suffering. From a scientific perspective, human life has no intrinsic worth—people are just biological organisms. This is why science, in itself, cannot provide the moral foundation to say that it is wrong to kill someone because they are deemed “unfit.”

The sanctity of human life is not something that can be rationally inferred from any scientific theory. The idea that human life has intrinsic value comes from moral, spiritual, or ethical beliefs, not science. Ethics and morality cannot be fully explained by scientific laws; they require a framework that goes beyond the material world.

The Study of What Matters

This brings us back to the study of what matters. Spirituality and ethics help us understand what is truly important—things like compassion, justice, and respect for human dignity. Science can help us understand how the world works, but it does not dictate how we should behave within it. As Einstein himself said, science cannot provide the ethical foundation for itself. It is up to humans, guided by a sense of what matters, to determine how to use scientific knowledge responsibly.

In summary, while science provides invaluable tools for understanding and controlling the material world, it cannot answer deeper questions about meaning, values, or morality. These are the domain of spirituality and ethics, which help us understand what truly matters in life. Humanity is driven not just by rational thought, but by higher ideals, which inspire some of our most noble and heroic actions.

The Role of Science and Spirituality in Ethics

The central question here is: Can science itself develop an ethical sense in people? The answer is no. Science is about understanding the natural world, but it doesn’t inherently provide the ethical framework for how we should live or make decisions.

This is not to say that scientists cannot be ethical. Many are, and they uphold strong moral principles. However, there is nothing within the purely naturalistic study of science to instill that sense of ethics. This is where spirituality comes in.

Spirituality helps us understand why life is sacred and what truly matters. It offers a broader view of reality, which can help us refine our values. For example, spirituality teaches that life has sanctity because every living being is a manifestation of God’s grace, and that nature, too, has its sanctity because it is part of the divine.

Through a proper understanding of what matters, spirituality helps us make better choices, see our lives as valuable, and become better human beings. Science can give us better control over the material world—better gadgets, better technology—but it doesn’t guide us on how to live meaningfully or ethically.

The Importance of Spirituality in Defining Values

Everyone has some understanding of what matters. For instance, for Hitler, what mattered was creating a new world order by eliminating those he deemed obstacles. His hierarchy of values was distorted. Spirituality helps us define and refine our values. It clarifies what truly matters and helps us align our actions with higher ideals.

Spirituality not only helps us grow in virtue but also shapes our decisions and helps us become better human beings.

When science and spirituality come together, we can improve both the world and ourselves—science improves things, spirituality improves people.

Rationality, God, and the Limits of Science

Now, moving on to a deeper question: Can a rational person be spiritual? The first point to understand is that rationality points to a reality beyond itself. Rationality—logic, reason, and mathematics—is central to science. But if we equate rationality with atheism or being anti-spiritual, then we must ask: Why should the universe have any rational order? Why should our minds have the capacity for rational thought if we’re just biologically programmed for survival?

Rationality has no explanation for why it exists or works. It doesn’t explain why our brains think rationally or why nature follows mathematical laws. These are questions that point beyond pure science.

God: The Foundation of Rationality

God is not an explanation for the unexplainable, nor is He simply an alternative to science. God is the foundation for science itself. Why is science able to discover the laws of nature? Because there is an underlying intelligence that has infused nature with rationality, which we uncover through scientific inquiry.

God is not just another being among many; He is the basis of all being. To ask who created God is like asking who made a circle circular—it’s a misunderstanding of the nature of God, who exists outside time and creates time. God is not a discovered object like an undiscovered satellite. He exists beyond nature, beyond the fabric of space and time.

Trans-Rationality and Miracles

There is also a trans-rational realm, which exists above the rational. Trans-rationality is beyond the limitations of human logic. We discussed how miracles, such as Krishna lifting the Govardhan Hill, are not against science but above it. Miracles involve the intervention of divine will into the natural order, temporarily suspending the laws of nature.

Trans-rational experiences, like acts of heroism or self-sacrifice, are often the most inspirational. If humans were purely rational, we might never risk our lives for others. But when we do, it’s an expression of something higher. These moments of selflessness show that humanity isn’t restricted to rationality alone.

Science and Spirituality Together

Science and spirituality can complement each other. Science is the study of matter—the physical world. Spirituality is the study of what matters—our values, our sense of purpose, what gives life meaning.

In history, science was misused for horrific purposes, such as by Nazi Germany in their eugenics experiments. The goal was to create a “better” human race by eliminating those deemed “unfit.” But such a horrifying ideology was not driven by science alone. From a scientific perspective, there is no inherent sanctity to human life—humans are just biological beings. It is spirituality that provides the sanctity of life and teaches us to value every human being as a spark of the divine.

The Need for Spiritual Values

The sanctity of life and nature come from spiritual understanding, which helps refine and define our values. Without spirituality, science could lead to dehumanizing practices like eugenics or environmental destruction, as it would lack the ethical framework to respect life. Spiritual growth helps us develop a deeper understanding of what truly matters, guiding us to become better people.

In summary, science can make things better, and spirituality can make people better. Together, they can create a better world.

Developing Faith Amid Doubts

A common question is: How can I develop faith in God when my mind is full of doubts and dilemmas? The key is engaging in discussions like these, where specific doubts are raised and addressed. Over time, through thoughtful dialogue and reasoning, our doubts can be resolved.

Spirituality is not about blind faith; it’s about using our reasoning to understand how we can move forward in life and deepen our connection with the divine.

Evolution and Its Implications

A common concern arises when schools teach the theory of evolution, even in religious schools. So, what can we do about this? It’s important to understand that the issue of evolution can be viewed from three different perspectives:

1. Evolution as an observed phenomenon: This refers to the fact that living beings adapt to their environments. This can be observed, and even artificially manipulated, as we see with selective breeding of plants and animals (e.g., small and large apples). This form of evolution, microevolution, involves variation within a species and is universally accepted. For example, Krishna in the Srimad Bhagavatam learned plant breeding, which is essentially microevolution.
2. Evolution as an inferred mechanism: This is the idea that species evolve into different species over time. While there is some evidence for this, the evidence is not conclusive, and many scientists still debate it. This is where some disagreement exists, but it’s not the main issue from a spiritual perspective.
3. Evolution as an all-encompassing ideology: This is where evolution is presented as a complete explanation for the origins of life, consciousness, and the diversity of life forms on Earth. This is not science but ideology. The theoretical possibility of how consciousness evolved, for example, is highly speculative and lacks coherent scientific support. Evolution as an ideology attempts to explain everything, including life’s origins, but falls short when addressing deeper questions like the origin of life and consciousness.

Understanding the Spiritual Perspective on Evolution

• From a spiritual perspective, evolution as an observed phenomenon and even as a mechanism for adaptation (microevolution) doesn’t necessarily conflict with the belief in God. In fact, the intelligence behind nature’s adaptability could point to a higher intelligence. Just like self-learning AI programs, which adapt and improve based on new data, the adaptability of nature could be seen as evidence of a brilliant designer.
• The real issue is when evolution is presented as the only explanation for life’s origin and the existence of consciousness. This attempt to explain everything through evolution is speculative and cannot explain the existence of life or consciousness, which require more than just a mechanistic explanation.
• Srila Prabhupada’s view: Prabhupada emphasized that life comes from life. Evolution, in its natural form, is a process of adaptation, but it doesn’t address the origin of life or consciousness. Evolution as an ideology—used to justify atheism or materialism—is where the issue arises for spiritual seekers.

Choosing the Right Focus

Our concern with evolution is not about rejecting scientific facts, but about how evolution is used to promote materialism or atheism and deny the existence of God. It’s crucial to address the issue at the level where evolution is misused as an ideology rather than as a scientific explanation for species adaptation.

Conclusion

In summary, the spiritual perspective is not against the observed phenomenon of evolution or even the idea that species can adapt to their environment. The concern arises when evolution is used as an ideological tool to reject the existence of God and the deeper purpose of life. We must carefully distinguish between science and ideology, and focus our efforts on addressing the misuse of evolution in the context of materialism.

For further clarification, we’ll provide answers to additional questions on our website and share them via the WhatsApp group in the next session.

Thank you. Hare Krishna.