The bhakti journey 5 – Durga puja youth camp Newtown Kolkata

Sorry for the slight delay in reaching home. So let’s do a quick recap. What was the what is the broad topic we are discussing? Sorry. One person.

Sorry? Bhakti journey. Yeah. The journey of bhakti. And which particular section within that?

Anartha nivritti. And what are the parts of Anartha nivritti we discussed till now? Vishayasangra, Yudha Vikalpa, Himagraha, and yes. So not Tarangrangini. We discussed?

Kantarna. Correct. So the idea is when we are trying to move from this world toward Krishna, there are 2 distinct aspects to this. One is that we want to turn away from Maya, and we also want to turn toward Krishna. So till now primarily we discussed the challenges involved in turning away from Maya.

And now we are going to focus on the challenges in turning toward Krishna. So within that we’ll be focusing on specifically the, aspects in which we can, what makes us consistent or what can make us consistent and what prevents consistency in the practice of bhakti. So yesterday, we finished the discussion on the topic of how there might be moodiness. Our moods sometimes work with us and sometimes they don’t work with us. So sometimes they are favorable, sometimes they are unfavorable.

So in that situation moving forward is difficult. Okay, sorry. So now we will move forward to discuss the 2 remaining stages today and we’ll be continuing this series on day after tomorrow morning. Tomorrow we are going out and today evening we will have a Prabhupada faith and doubt session. So day after tomorrow morning we will continue and conclude where we will talk about the remaining nishthaar ji, asakti bhau.

We’ll talk about them briefly in our last session. But here, if we consider Anarthi Nuriti to be a fairly long climb. So there are broadly two aspects. We could see the against some are related with Anarthas and we could say the other relate with the Artha. So the Anarthas can in one sense both are related to the only in one sense.

Anarthas can pull us towards that which is inauspicious and they can also pull us away from what is auspicious. So the Anarthas work in both ways. So we discussed 3 phases of the Anarthas which the Vishayasagara, then the and then near Mahakshima. So these are now see I’m giving a particular way of analyzing this. This need not be the only way to analyze.

Nirmakshama could be that not just the inability to follow the rules with respect to his sensual restraint. It could also be the rules of connecting with Krishna. I just feel I can’t do it. But when we keep everything very broad, then nothing becomes clear. That’s why we are trying to analyze it in a little bit of a more of a progress, distinct sense.

So here we discussed about ghanatarna. That sometimes I feel like practicing bhakti, sometimes I don’t feel like practicing bhakti. And today I’ll talk about Tarangarangini. Tarangarangini is the peripherals. We delight in peripherals.

And then there is utsahamayi. So now utsahamayi, it is more like showing off. So while both of these have some similarity, there is some difference also in it. So it is that let’s take some examples to illustrate this point. Many of us know about the Amrut Manthan Leela.

When the churning was going on initially poison came out. And then what happens is that on that journey first there is bad. And if you want to go towards what is the best, so the bad has to be given up. But then the good also has to be given up. So the bad was the poison, But the good was many celestial gifts came up.

At that time, some damsels like Urvashi came out or some other damsels came out. Many wonderful things came out from there. But they were also distractions. And Lord Rishu told them, wait. The best was finally the nectar that came out.

Even in the path of yoga, it is described that as the person comes towards samadhi, at that time they start getting mystic siddhis. And those siddhis are also considered to be peripheral benefits. The purpose of yoga, traditionally at least, it’s a means for transcendence, means for self realization. But somebody can gain mystic powers and they can become very famous. Oh, you know, this person can lift stone, this person can produce this substance, this person can do that.

And somebody can actually do that. Many people may just pretend. Some people may actually be able to do it. But by that they get fame in the world, but they may get still caught in the world. Fame is after all still a material thing.

So they get the material thing and they may lose transcendence over there. So on every in every spiritual path it is described that the spiritual path can sometimes pose some material challenges, but the sometimes the spiritual path can also give some material blessings. And those material blessings, what does one do with them? That is the test. Now that is one possibility.

It’s like somebody is going on the spiritual path, but along the spiritual path they get diverted. So they get diverted means that they get these are material benefits on the spiritual path. So this is the spiritual perfection. Now there are 2 possibilities here that somebody is sincere. Sincere in the sense that they start off with the ultimate goal in mind, spiritual perfection.

But then by the time they get here, they get distracted. So they are sincere but distracted eventually. Now the other possibility is that somebody might from the beginning itself be insincere or duplicitous. That means they come, they’re right now from the beginning only their goal is this only. So they come thinking that I’ll get these material benefits.

So Krishna talks about this as a demoniac mentality. He talks about 16.15, 16, 17, he talks about this. He says, such people So he says that they do means to do Now we do But they do Yagna for Naam. They do Yagna so that they can get name and fame and glory. And there are unfortunately people like this.

So this is almost you can call it a paradox. This is demoniac devotion. Now we can say how can devotion ever be demoniac? It is devotion done with demoniac motives. Now can bhakti purify them also?

Well, bhakti can purify everyone, but bhakti will purify if the person wants to be purified. If the person doesn’t want to be purified at all, then it’s not going to work, because Krishna never overrides a person’s free will. Now we can say there are some stories where, you know, somebody is attracted to Krishna, there’s a thief who’s attracted to Krishna saying that Krishna has such expensive ornaments. So let me go and, steal those ornaments from Krishna. And he comes to Krishna and then he gets attracted to Krishna.

It’s a sweet story. Now the important thing over here is that particular thief, he goes to Vrindavan in search of Krishna, but there is no description that he deliberately pretends to be a devotee. He just when he comes to Krishna also, he is straight interested in the jewels. So Krishna can purify even demoniac people, but not demoniac people who are holding on to the demoniac desires and that’s the only reason they have come there. Sooner or later, they need to give up those desires.

So there are multiple examples we can give of people who had some ulterior motives. They had less than stailler motives, but they got purified. So if you can consider, there is transcendence and generally this is transcendence. And then there is Satwa, Rajas and Tamas. So you remember we talked about how for some people, God is the means and the world is the end.

So it one possibility is that somebody anybody from Sattva can come towards Krishna, anybody from Rajas can come towards Krishna, anybody from Tamas can also come towards Krishna. In the sense that Krishna is open to everyone. Somebody might be an alcoholic and they see some devotees chanting and dancing. And they think, okay, let me also dance. Let me also sing something.

And they are they are experiencing some level of Krishna. So that is possible. Now another possibility is somebody in Satwa may turn to Krishna for getting the Satvik goal. Somebody in Rajas may turn toward Krishna for getting the rajasik goal. Somebody in Thomas may turn toward Krishna to get their tamasik goal.

These 2 are different dynamics. One is I’m interested in Krishna and where I am is different. The other is I’m interested in where I am and Krishna can be a tool for me to get it. So if we consider this, the example for this is, performed great austerities. This is described in 3rd canto and then in fact the austerity is such that, Lord Vishnu came and Lord Vishnu shed tears, seeing his austerities.

That is how the Bandhu Madhu Sarovar is said to have formed. And when he sees Lord Vishnu, what does he say? No, I want a life partner. And then the now we may say if he’s already seen Lord Vishnu, why does he need a life partner? Well, it is not that everybody will necessarily be immediately attracted to the Lord.

Now if you see, that was not ordinary mundane lust. See sometimes we just everything one tendency in spiritual life is to be very reductionistic. Reductionistic means what? That, like, some small kid, they discover a kid discovers a hammer. If I’m with the hammer, what do you do?

Oh, that nail is coming out. It is it is hurting me. The nail has disappeared. This hammer is very powerful. So what happens?

Once you start the child discovers the power of a hammer, then every problem becomes a nail to be hit. But every problem is not a nail to be hit with a hammer. So in Sanskrit, this is called as. In modern logic is called as single factor analysis. Single factor analysis means that we reduce any issue to only one factor.

And we don’t consider other factors involved over there. So if some problem is there, what is the cause of the problem? And everybody is vulnerable everybody is prone to single factor analysis because that’s just the tendency of the mind. So what do I mean by single factor analysis? That, say, for example, somebody is, nowadays with feminism rising, there is a lot of concern that women are not paid as much as men.

Female salaries less than male salary. Now that is true. But is it because of gender discrimination? That could be one explanation. But it is also possible that, you know, women and men work in different professions.

Generally, women like to work where they can interact with people. Men often like to work with things. And in working with things, then the profession is scalable. Like somebody is doing writing a software program. You can write a software program, that program can be replicated.

But a woman is in nursing. You can only nurse so many people. That is not scalable. So I’m not saying this is a full explanation. But the point is, like, if somebody is a very aggressive feminist, and as soon as they see any discrimination difference, oh, this is because of feminism.

Maybe it is, maybe it is not. It depends. I’m not saying that that explanation is wrong. It’s definitely a possibility. But single factor analysis means that we reduce okay, why is there fanaticism?

Islam is a terrible religion. Well, but then you see the biggest victims of Islamic fanaticism are Muslims. You know, Shias and Sunnis, they have killed each other more than they have killed people of other religions, at least in recent history. You can go further. So if it is Islam, then both sides are Islam only, isn’t it?

So is that the only cause? Well, that is definitely one cause to say Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. That is going to be too politically correct. But to say that, you know, Islam is the cause of all Islamic terrorism. Well, okay, Indonesia is a very peaceful version of Islam.

Indonesia, so that is also Islam only. People are following it. So some people may say that. Same way. Hinduism means the caste system.

Hinduism is a terrible religion because it religiously sanctions and mandates discrimination. Okay. Yes. Hinduism has been associated with caste system. But, you know, when people get converted to Christianity, even among Christians there are castes.

Now they may not officially recognize the caste, but it’s more mentality of people rather than something coming from religion. It’s more of a social cultural issue than a religious issue. So the point I’m making is single factor analysis can always be a problem. So when a male and a female are attracted to each other why am I talking about all this? So Kasyap Muni Kartamuni, sorry.

Kartamuni wants a wife. But if you see, even after he gets a wife, he just continues doing his austerities for several years. And his wife keeps serving him faithfully. And so there is a need for a relationship, but it’s more for a it’s there is no sexual component to the relationship, or that’s not what is driving him at that particular time. Eventually, of course, they have a child, but so the thing is, all male female attraction to say it is only because of sex.

Well, that is a significant factor. But to say that that is all that is there, that may not always be true. So it is a material desire, but the fact is that it is not a rajasik desire. I mean the difference is clear that he still allowed to do austerity. He just felt that, you know, I need a partner with whom I can do the austerities.

And that partner is, he wants a female partner. So man and woman are made to be complementary in some ways. So he had a sattvic desire, but what happened eventually his devotion led him to, okay he had a child, then eventually he renounced the world. That time, so the attachment took its own time to go away. Now Rajas, the example is Dhruva Maharaj.

Now Dhruva performed severe austerities, but what was his driving motive for that? To gain a kingdom. It was not a tamasic desire. A tamasic desire would be that I will get a bigger kingdom than my father’s and I’ll attack my father’s kingdom, I’ll destroy that kingdom, I’ll take over that kingdom. It was a competitive desire, but it was not a destructive desire.

So the competition doesn’t have to be tamasik. Competition is, oh, you are good, I want to become better than you. Or destructive competition, you are good. It’s not that I will become better than you, I will make sure that you become worse than me. So that is not very positive.

Mhmm. So it was a rajasic desire. But eventually, he had contact with the Lord and he became purified. It took him time. Now, with the Dhruva, it was not during the practice of bhakti that he became purified.

It was it took time for him when he had the darshan of the Lord. That was the time he felt this was not worth it. But then we have another story of Poorvara. Now Puru was very captivated by Urvashi. And then when Urvashi left him, he actually did a yagna to Vishnu.

And then Vishnu came in front of him. And he saw Vishnu and he said, please grant me Urvashi. Now we may say that, why? If Vishnu is there, why is he still desiring Urvashi? Well, sometimes some desires may be very strong.

And it is to his credit that he did not simply use his rajasik power to try to attack the Gandharvas and try to take her away from force. He prayed to Vishnu. Now he got. Now what happened was, still after that, eventually in material life, whatever desires we have, they will disappoint us. Sometimes, see when we say there is this word there’s distress.

The distress can range from disappointment to devastation. So disappointment means I seek what I want, I get it, but it’s not good enough. And devastation means what I get is the opposite of what I dreamt. So the distress in the world doesn’t always have to be devastation. Like somebody’s, oh, I thought this will be my dream job or this will be my dream life partner.

And and then it is possible that the job is good, this relationship is good, but it is not what all I dreamt about. So there is a disappointment, and that disappointment leads to some dissatisfaction. But dissatisfaction is not the same as devastation. So for Harshishok, for Chitraketu, when Harshishok died, was it a disappointment? No.

To call it a disappointment is a disappointing use of vocabulary. It was a devastation. So distress doesn’t mean everybody this world is a place of distress, doesn’t mean that everybody is devastated. Sometimes life just does not live up to our expectation and that leads to dissatisfaction. So it can range from over a range.

So for him eventually what happened, he felt that this is not enough for me. Then because he had darshan of the Lord, he got purified and then he focused on Vishnu and he became a pure devotee. So for for Dhruva it happened faster. For Urva for Purva it happened a little slower. Now with respect to Tamoguna, there is the example of Diti.

She had a desire that I want to have a child who will kill Indra because Indra arranged for my sons Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakashipu to be killed. So she performed austerities and then she was told that you do this this, vrata, which is for the pleasure of Lord Vishnu. And she still had a negative desire, but over a period of time that desire went away. So in Shastra itself it is described that bhakti has its effects but it may take time. So now this is, we may say how is all this related with Tarangarangini?

So Tarangarangini, that looking for pleasure in peripherals. It can I said it can happen in 2 ways? 1 is, one comes only for the peripherals, and the second is, one may come with a pure motive, but one gets attracted by the peripherals. Now we may say if somebody is practicing bhakti, how can they get attracted by the peripherals? Okay.

Is it that somebody one has a pure motive earlier and then the motive becomes impure? Well it’s not that simple. It’s that life provides us different temptations at different times. So when a temptation comes at that time we have to say no to it. Now somebody might be a very, reserved kind of person before.

You know, that person doesn’t is not very outgoing, doesn’t talk very much, has never been very popular. And then because that person was like that, even they they may not even have, like, a big desire for popularity. But then they become a devotee, and then they become a speaker, they become a counselor wherever they go. You know, people bow down to them, people surround them, people want to talk with them. Then they get a taste of popularity.

They didn’t have that before. Now they get the taste for popularity and then they start already infatuated by that. So when the particular temptation comes, that is the time when that test comes in their life. So sometimes somebody may get sidelined by that. So basically, so pleasure or delight in peripherals.

So delight in peripherals. It can happen that is our starting motive itself. That’s one possibility. The other is that is a distraction on the path. It can happen in both ways.

Now either way when this happens, at that time it needs to be dealt with. So now that’s why if we say So this wealth, fame and sensual pleasure. So these three things, they are typical distractions. Now wealth means say a devotee becomes influential, Then people make your donations. You’re going to build a temple.

So then people give donations. And then normally there has to be some system of accountability, even temples have to be audited. But somebody may get infatuated, this is my money. This is money which I have raised, but doesn’t mean it’s my money. But somebody may start using that wealth or abusing that wealth.

So this way there are peripherals that may come. Generally, when these peripherals come, at that time what can happen is that it’s not that the person gives up Krishna to pursue the peripherals. That is rare. That can also happen, but that doesn’t happen so easily. Because they will not give up Krishna because it is due to their connection with Krishna or at least due to the public perception of their connection with Krishna that they’re getting these things.

Isn’t it? That it is people are respecting this person because they are a devotee. So so what happens is that such a person may apparently be practicing very serious devotion. Serious devotion means what? That at least the external practice appears very serious.

That person may fast nirjal o nikadashi. That person may wake up and come very much in time for mangalarthi. But it is so that everybody will respect me, and I am such a serious devotee. And then I’m a serious devotee, by then what happens? Everybody will follow me submissively.

So what happens is human even humility, it can be a means to Krishna. Now when we are not so filled with ourselves, then if we are self conscious, we can’t be Krishna conscious. So in that sense, for us humility is, okay, I am part of Krishna. Let me focus on how I can serve Krishna. But humility can also be a means to power.

How? Because if I am humble in front of my seniors, then I can demand similar humility from my juniors. So the more I show my humility to others, the more I can demand humility from my juniors. So it is subtle and sometimes it may not even be consciously done. It may not be done consciously with a cynical motive.

But it is it is just it works like that. So now this can come in in every area of life. In the western world and even in India, there is a lot of suspicion about what they call as organized religion. There’s a whole group of people who say we are SBNR. Anyone has heard this acronym?

SBNR? Yes. I’m spiritual but not religious. So what their idea is that, yeah, I want to meditate, I want to experience some higher reality, but I don’t want to be a part of a religious organization. So now there are now we could say, see whenever people have certain mentalities.

So if somebody is of this particular mentality, organised religion, so that we could look at it from a negative perspective, from a positive perspective. The negative perspective is they just don’t want to surrender. They just want to avoid authority. And spiritual life means we like in any field, if you want to grow, if you want to become an expert athlete, there is a coach. We need to let the coach mold us.

So now this is one way of looking at it. And you remember earlier I talked about the political right and the political left. So the right is concerned with, does anyone remember? Yes. The right is concerned with individual responsibility.

The left is concerned with social responsibility or social justice. That’s the big moment. So now one simple way to understand the difference between the right and left is that the right is concerned with what is right in the existing system, in the existing culture, in the existing tradition, and they want to preserve it. So the right is concerned with what is right in the existing tradition, culture, system. Whereas the left is concerned about those who are left out by the current system, structure, culture, tradition.

So for example, there’s some hierarchical society. In any way it is. So capitalism is a hierarchical society. So there are people who are wealthy, they own the capital, and there are people who are poor. So now if there it’s a straightest society, you know, this capitalism works.

It has led to prosperity. And if you look at modern history, capitalism is the only system that actually led to any prosperity. When India had too much government regulations, India after liberalization has got some wealth. Now of course, whether that wealth has led to happiness is a different question. But at least this wealth has come in.

So capitalism so there is the system the left is concerned about. But what about the poor? You’re saying the poor are becoming poorer and poorer. The gap between the wealthy and poor is increasing. So of course, there’s a middle class which is coming, and that is a typical feature of modern society.

But the point is that left and right, every society needs both. Every society needs to preserve what is done being done right, but every society also needs to care for those who are left out by it, by the existing system. So left and right both are required in society. So now, in general, with respect to organized religion, so those on the right, they will say that this system has worked for 1000 of years. There are so many spiritual seekers who have grown by the system.

And if you don’t want to be a part of system, that is your problem. You are unsurrendered. You are whimsical. You are independent minded. And that is why you are not also surrendered.

Right. Is that a possibility? Definitely that’s a possibility. So those who are right on the right, they will put the responsibility on individual. You need to get get into shape.

But those who are on the left, they will consider, is the system really working as well as you say it is or is there something wrong? So they would say that in the name of religion, there is so much corruption that happens. There are so many self interested people who use and abuse religion for their own purposes. And I don’t want to go into a whole different distraction, but I’m just going to make this point over here. That see whenever there is atheism, atheism can be philosophical atheism or atheism can be psychological atheism.

So philosophical atheism means somebody has intellectual reasons why they say I believe God doesn’t exist. And there are some intellectual reasons that people can use. But most people who have become atheist, it is more for psychological reasons. Psychological reason means they have had bad experience with religion. Maybe bad experience could mean that they were ashamed in public for not doing a particular thing, or they saw some hypocrisy among religious people, and they feel that this whole religion business is nonsense.

And they have some scars because of that. And these scars come because there are people who put on a religious garb, but they misrepresent their religion. They misuse their religion. In fact, I was in Texas. Tex in America, Texas is considered to be a quite a evangelical state, Like aggressive there are Christians who are very pushy.

They’re trying to push their religion and everyone else. So I saw a car with a bumper sticker at the night. Oh, God, please save me from your preachers. So the normal idea is that God saves us through his preachers. But the preachers themselves are holier than thou.

They’re condescending. They are hell and brimstone preaching. You know, then people say, I don’t want anything to do with them. So, you know, there was this movie, OMG. Not OMG 2, the first OMG.

So that was the idea. How it was that? It like, there was a religious teacher, and there was God. So this person says, I believe in God, but I don’t believe in this religious teacher. So you could say it’s a very cunning dynamic that you’re not going against God.

But the point is that it happens that many times people say, I believe in God, but I don’t believe in all these, what you call as, God men. And that happens when those who are supposed to represent God have ulterior motives. Now we are not doing a sociological analysis of the problem of religion, but to some level, some honesty requires that we don’t just say the problem is out there. The problem is in here also. The problem can be in our organization.

The problem can be in our own hearts also. So this problem, this self critical nature that you know, self critical means that many religions are good at criticizing everyone else. This is wrong with this person. This is wrong with this person. This is wrong with this person.

But a sign of a really authentic religion is the capacity to be self critical. To this Tarangarangini, this anartha, identifying this anartha is itself a sign of self critical religion, that it is we ourselves can get caught in peripherals. And when we get caught in peripherals, then what happens? We may lose out on Krishna, and we may not even take people towards Krishna. So if I give a class, then if I’m concerned about how many times people laugh in my class, Now is it it’s good to have some humor.

It is good to keep the audience enlivened, and humor is a way to keep people enlivened. But if the speaker is concerned more about how many laughs I got from the class, and the audience also rates the quality of a class by the laughter test. You know? Okay. How much humor was there in the class?

Jokes. Isn’t it? You know? So now the point is that humor is good, and there’s nothing wrong with humor. Humor is very good.

Sometimes it’s necessary. But the point is we should not be delighting in the humor. If at the end of a class somebody says, I remember the jokes, I’m going to use those jokes in my conversations. Well, then the purpose of the class has been defeated, isn’t it? Generally, the best humor is organic.

That means while making a point which is a spiritual philosophical point, some example is given which is a humorous example. But sometimes the joke is not connected with the philosophical point or the joke is told with so much drama that people remember the point of the joke. So when that happens, then that is where something is it’s in the ambit of Krishna Gatha, but we are interested more in the humor. We are delighting more in the humor than in Krishna. So it may seem too innocent thing, you know.

What is the big deal? Sanjay says there’s some humor, but that’s where it starts. So we go towards one peripheral then another peripheral then another peripheral. So in bhakti there are material results that will also come. And this is a challenge because in one sense, you know, when we are practicing bhakti, there are 2 things which we are trying to do.

See, this is the spiritual level of reality and this is the material level of reality. So we could say at one level bhakti means we want to transcend the world. We want to transcend the world and go toward Krishna. But we also want to transform the world. Isn’t it?

We want people to become devotees. We want to share bhakti. So bhakti has both these aspects, world transcending and world transforming. Now, if you see which is going to get recognition among these 2? Yes.

This is largely visible. This is I won’t say completely invisible, but definitely less visible. Even if somebody if somebody’s really absorbing Krishna, how do you know it? Somebody might okay. When Kirtan start happening, that person tears start coming from their eyes.

Well, that could be a sign that they’re transcending. But but Gauravishadvapaji, one of the acharya’s and the teacher said that what is the price for tears? He said it is the price of an onion. You just get an onion, put it near your eyes, tears will start coming. Those are not tears because of ecstasy.

Those are tears because of the onion. So somebody can make a show of the symptoms of advanced devotionals. So the thing is that in general, in any organization, this is a challenge. Because now why is organization needed? Because organization systematizes things.

So it’s like the standard metaphor, if this is the top of a mountain and this is an ocean. Now the river has to go from the top of the mountain to the ocean. So each one of us is like a small trickle of water. So now, you know, a small little trickle of water for that to get to the ocean is very difficult. Some trickles may be so strong, I hope the word trickle is clear, like a small gentle flow of water.

That’s a trickle. So it’s a little trickle of water. For that trickle of water to get to the ocean all alone is very difficult. So when many trickles of water come together, that becomes a tributary. It becomes a rivulet.

It becomes a tributary. When many tributaries come together, that becomes a river. And as the river keeps flowing, it creates a bed for itself. And then in the bed, the river can keep flowing very easily. So a religious organization is nothing but, like, the riverbed created for the flow of water.

So that is, there are many people who are interested in God, but they are not so interested in God that they will alone be able to pursue the journey to God by themselves. Like a rivulet, a small trickle of water going toward the ocean. So they need a community. So basically a religious organization is nothing but a riverbed. It is basically people who want to go towards God, they come together and create some infrastructure.

They might build a temple. They might have some goshala. They might have this. They might have that. Whatever is needed for the purpose of taking this forward.

Say if somebody, they want to be religious, they need some priests. Now if they want a priest, okay, either you have to have the have a paid priest or you have to have some brahmachari, then you have to maintain the brahmacharis. So so basically, whatever is required, that has to be supported. So that’s how early this organization occurs. But then once there is a riverbed, there might be some people who come there because they want to build a dam over there.

And then they want to dig the water somewhere else only. So they come there not because they want to go to the ocean, because there is so much water over there. And the riverbed means the water will be much more over here. So there are people who come because there is so much facility over here. You know, you just pretend to be a little bit religious, then people will you know, which other organization you go there for 1 or 2 years, and as soon as you are seen, people start going down to you.

It doesn’t happen anywhere else, isn’t it? So you see, I can get so much respect over here. So that respect and prestige may be what will drive people. So it is a constant danger that whenever there is a release organization, there is wealth, there is fame, there is power, then politics starts coming in, then manipulation starts happening. And then now what happens is quite often, there are some people who just come transparently for these things only.

But there are people who may start thinking, actually, I am doing all this for Krishna. But is it really for Krishna or is it for my reputation, for my fame? So when we start delighting in the peripherals, then it is very difficult to figure out. Mahaprabhu says that when the bhakti lata peach is growing, at that time, along with that weed also started growing. And sometimes the weeds may look just like the original creeper only.

And, you know, there is the original creeper, and when the weeds look like the creeper, it is creepy. You know it’s you know creepy? Creepy means it’s uncomfortable, hostile. So how do we deal with this Tarangarangini? There are broadly three things.

We need to remember and remind ourselves of our aim. Either we remember or we have to refine our aim. That’s why there is regular study of philosophy. Now, of course, somebody can say that they can study the philosophy itself for the purpose of showing off how learned they are. Everything can be misused.

But if you are repeatedly hearing and speaking the classes where devotees are ready to give up everything for Krishna, that will at least remind us. So in general, if there is a tradition where there is very little emphasis on philosophy. Now what is the other thing apart from philosophy? There are rituals. So now rituals are important, but if there are only rituals being done and there’s no philosophy being emphasized, then it’s very easy to get caught in the rituals.

And I’m doing the rituals, I’m a good person. This person does the rituals nicely. Oh, this is a good person. And we are both in good illusion, isn’t it? So it’s like, oh, the Pujari does the arti so decorative.

You know? They move the hands so nicely. And I’m not looking at Krishna. I’m looking at how nice the charmer is being. And the person who is moving the charmer also is not thinking how I’m pleasing Krishna.

The person who is in the charmer is thinking, okay, how how much people are impressed by how I move the charmer. Isn’t it? So it can kirtan also the person who is leading the kirtan can be thinking, you know, just see how nicely I am singing. And everybody is dancing, and you see how much I can make people dance. And if people are dancing, they say, you they think, you know, okay.

It’s nice music and good singer. Well, good singer is true, but are you remembering Krishna, or are you just enjoying the music and the dance? Now we can say music and dance is related with Krishna, but slowly but subtly, the focus can get shifted. That’s why if you’re only going through the rituals and not studying the philosophy, then that becomes a problem. So the studying the philosophy on a regular basis is very important.

And the other is we need, even within association, we need as much as possible pure association. Pure association means that association of those who are focused on Krishna. And even among devotees, you know, you will over a period of time start seeing that different devotees have a different energy. Some devotees may be devoted completely to preaching. Okay.

We’re going to go and make this program over here, that program over there. That’s wonderful. They have that missionaries here. Some devotees may be very interested in farm communities. You know, we want to raise cow, we take care of cows.

Now all of these are good things. It’s good to have some sense of mission of how we want to transform the world. But while the devotees are doing these things, how much is the devotee satisfied in Krishna? When Prabhupada went to America, at that time, you could now the first volume of Ilhamu is called as a lifetime in preparation. Now you could look at it from a different perspective.

It is a it is a lifetime of failure. The harsh way of putting it. But Prabhupada had tried so many things, and he had practically nothing to show for it. Imagine somebody is 70, and they have only 40 rupees in savings. Now you should have some savings at least.

What did you do? So from a material perspective, were you irresponsible? Were you incompetent? What happened? Why don’t you have any savings at all?

So from a material perspective, you could say he’s a failure. From a spiritual perspective, he had books, which is a significant success, but he didn’t have any followers. He didn’t have any institutional support. But the striking thing is that there was no bitterness in Prabhupada. You know, Krishna.

I gave my whole life to Krishna, but I’m all alone struggling right now. So many times it happens with devotees when they’re trying to do some services, and they feel, you know, people are the authorities are not cooperating with me. This is not happening. That is not working. And there can be genuine grievances, and they need to be addressed.

But having grievances is one thing, becoming bitter is another thing. So there was absolutely no bitterness in Prabhupada. The people who met him just felt, Swami, this person Swami is so happy. He’s talking about Krishna and chanting Krishna’s name, writing about Krishna. Prabhupada was happy.

So Prabhupada was know, there was he wanted to transform the world, but even if the transformation of the world had not happened, Prabhupada was still satisfied. If you consider from another perspective, Prabhupada at one time said that he got this success exceeded his expectations. A spectacular success, 108 temples he built. But then the one temple that Prabhupada fought more than for any other temple, which was that Joh temple. You know, Prabhupada departed in in November 77.

The temple was inaugurated in January February 78. And Prabhupada could have said to Krishna, Krishna, this temple is so close to inauguration. Just let me live for 2, 3 months. This is this is my service to you. I want to see it completed.

But when Prabhupada asked, do you have any last desires? Prabhupada said, You know, he had worked so hard to build that temple, but it is only Prabhupada was frustrated or discontented. Okay. This is not my mission. This is Krishna’s mission.

If Krishna wants to do it through me, he will do it through me. If it’s not through me, there’ll be other instruments who will carry it on. So that was while Prabhupada worked to transform the world. Prabhupada was not doing Tarangarangini. Otherwise there are so many things which didn’t work and he could have got frustrated and could have got bitter.

It never happened to him. So we want to transform the world no doubt, but we also want to connect with Krishna. So one way, so we need pure association. So we need philosophy, we need pure association. And the third thing is again, I would say that we need some level of reflection, self reflection or introspection.

A reflection means especially reflection on what? That when something doesn’t work out, how agitated do we get about it? And is the agitation it’s natural if we have put a lot of effort in some service and if service doesn’t work out, we will feel disturbed by it. Say, you know, if I travel from one country to another country for a program, and that program is completely poorly organized and they did not do proper publicity and this went wrong and that went wrong. Now it is actually I’ll be upset.

But if I get so upset that there are maybe I was expecting for 100 people to come and there are 10 people over there. It’s actually that I get upset. But if I get so upset that in front of those 10 people I start yelling at the organizers, then, okay, what is going to happen is, okay, the organizers said better that the remaining 90 people didn’t come. Isn’t it? Because this kind of behavior would actually drive away those who are coming.

Isn’t it? Okay. If Krishna arranges for 100 people, good. If Krishna arranges for 10 people, let me try to speak these 10 people as well as I can. And then there is a place where I can talk with the organizer.

I can try to find out what happened, what went wrong. But so the point is reflection is if there is excessive negativity, When there is failure or when there is lack of success, then that is an indication that there is too much happening. That if somebody starts thinking, what is the point of doing bhakti only? Because my service is not working out, we get angry, we get bitter. You see at the end of the Bhagavad Gita, in one sense, the Gita could have ended at the birth 73.

Krishna tells Arjuna, have you understood properly? Arjuna says, yes. I will do your will. But what is there from 74 to 78? There are Sanjay’s words.

And these are the these are very, very instructive. See, Krishna spoke the message to Arjuna, that is the Gita. Now Sanjay spoke the same message to the Trastra. Now Arjuna was transformed. So in that sense, Krishna speaking the Gita is successful.

Was Sanjay transformed? Was Sanjay speaking the Gita? Was the Trasha transformed? No. So was Sanjay speaking a failure?

Well, you could say yes. In an external sense, it was a failure. But the verses 70 especially 76 and 77, they show how Sanjay is ecstatic. So he’s saying, dad, I’m so fortunate that I got to hear the Bhagavad Gita. And as I’m remembering the Gita, I’m remembering Krishna’s message, and I’m remembering Krishna’s form.

And I’m thrilled by it. So he has himself transcended. He has become immersed in Krishna. So Krishna has the capacity, you know, in Krishna consciousness, we could say there are 4 possibilities. There is success.

Success means there is transformation. And there is happiness. Now happiness means I’m using the transcending. We become absorbed in Krishna. Now best is if we get this, that we get success and happiness both.

But what should not happen is that sometimes we may get happiness, but we don’t get success. And that can happen. There are some pro popa disciples who may have thousands and thousands of disciples, and there are some pro popa disciples who have 5 or 10 disciples. Now does that mean that the disciples who have only 5 those those gurus who have 5 or 10 disciples, they are failures? No.

It depends. They may also be absorbed in Krishna, but Krishna has different plans for different people. Different people have different talents. So sometimes we may get happiness, but we may not get success. Now we could say neither success nor happiness is a bad thing.

But the most damaging would be success without happiness. That then this is this is tarangarangini. That I’m only getting the external success and because I’m not getting happiness internally, so I get no happiness in speaking about Krishna. I get only happiness when people praise me, what a wonderful class you give. And then after the class, if there’s no not many people come for the class, not many people appreciate the class, then I get angry.

Why? Because internally I’m getting no happiness. No speaking about Krishna itself should give us joy. In glorifying you there is so much nectar, he says. So we want to transcend and we also want to transform.

But what should not happen is, transforming should not become our excuse for not transcending. That is where Tarangarangini becomes dangerous. And then the last part is So in one sense, and Tarangarangini are very similar. Tarangarangini is more about what we delight in. That we start delighting in the peripherals of bhakti.

So the the Sanskrit word Tarangai is the waves. It’s like an ocean of devotion, the metaphor is there, and we are meant to go deep into that ocean and delight in the depths of the devotion. But sometimes on the waves, the on the surface of the ocean, the waves come up, and we just keep looking for a new wave and delighting in that way. That is not so good. We’re still in the ocean of devotion, but we are that’s not so good.

Now this especially refers to showing off. So this is where it’s almost as if the pleasure we are getting, we are enthusiastic, but the enthusiasm is a show to gain prestige, to gain pleasure, to show to others that I am so good. Now what is the difference between I spend a lot of time with Tarangarangini and it is very similar to Sami, but Tarangarangini or Sami, the difference is that in Tarangarangini, one may not necessarily even try to show that I am a great devotee. It is maybe that somebody comes to bhakti, somebody gets some power, somebody gets some position and then that is what they seek and that is what they delight in. But in utsahamayi, the person consciously pretends to be a great devotee.

So why do they do that? So that everybody will respect him. Like sometimes it happens that you know, some devotees, when they quote Prabhupada pastimes, they will quote Prabhupada, Prabhupada speaking very strongly. Fools, rascals, where is that? How Prabhupada smashed this person and smashed that person?

And sometimes they just speak those statements, and it’s like, in social media, there are sound bites. There are click baits. So you don’t have substance, then you try to have cheap click baits by which you attract readers. So they speak all these provocative statements, and they want to show, see how much faith I have in Prabhupada, how faithful I am to Prabhupada. You know, Prabhupada didn’t compromise.

I don’t compromise. But, you know, when Prabhupada made those statements, people didn’t get alienated. But when we make those statements without giving proper explanation of those statements, what happens is people just start thinking that people don’t some people think, oh, this person has so much faith in Prabhupada. But other people may think, you know, this person is unreasonable. This person is fanatical.

They go away. So we may show off in different ways. So here the focus is that one is, Tarangarangini is, we are delighting in something other than Krishna within the broad hamlet of bhakti. But in utsahamayi, we are actually showing off our devotion. So specifically, we are showing off the devotion so that we can get pleasure through that show of devotion.

So somebody may be fasting, but you know they don’t have to tell everyone I’m fasting, you know. It’s like some people, almost their behavior is, it’s almost like they want on their forehead, I’m a uttamadhikari. Panchang will not do. The under oath is required. Now they may not say like that, but their behavior is always like that.

So they are deliberately showing off, they do certain things and it’s it’s almost transparent they are doing that so that they can get more respect, they can go more prestige. Like, say, the spiritual master wears a chandar, they will also wear a chandar. And the spiritual like, Prabhupada would pronounce certain words in a particular way. Prabhupada would Prabhupada is from a Bengali background, so he was in English pronouncing in a particular way. So they some people just pronounce those words also exactly like that.

I don’t know. We don’t we shouldn’t judge them to say why they are doing it. That it may be out of their love for Prabhupada. But sometimes if you don’t see other aspects of their love for Prabhupada, only you see those things, then it does feel like it’s a cheap imitation. So it’s like one test of our devotion is how is our devotion when nobody is seeing it?

Isn’t it? It’s like, okay, when I am sitting with association, I sit very attentively and I chant, you know, as if, you know, there is nothing except the holy name in the 3 14 words. But then when I am alone, you know, my computer screen is right in front of me. And then, like, some people say that, you know, I am watching TV and I am chanting. I can do parallel processing.

Well, what is happening is some processing is happening, but it is Maya processing our bhakti. Isn’t it? So, we appear to be very attentive when we are in public and we are the complete opposite when we are in private. Now it is natural that none of us wants to be seen as a bad devotee or insincere devotee by others. And if the associative devotees makes us practice bhakti seriously, that is good.

But if that is the only reason or the only time when you practice bhakti seriously, then it is a problem. So you know that there is that in in Vedic logic, there is that, example that there is a case of a person called Devadatta. Devadatta fast throughout the day. That’s one statement. And everybody thinks, oh Devadatta is such a austere person, he is fasting.

But then you find out Devdutt’s weight is increasing. Now how can both these be true? The answer is Devdutt eats secretly at night. So in Vedic logic this is called as arthapati. Arthapati is when two statements, they both can’t be true and they are true.

Then you have to propose a third statement that can reconcile both of them. So God has no form. God has the most attractive form. Both kinds of statements are there in scripture. So what is arthapatti?

God has no material form, but he has a spiritual form, a transcendental form. So now this, there may be no exact one single verse in scripture which says this point. That God has no material form, but God has a spiritual form. There is this verse in Jigakha Jainra’s prayers. That ultimate reality has no form and that ultimate reality has many forms.

So there is a statement like that, but it is not specifically saying that Urupaya means no material form and Urupaya means spiritual forms. That’s arthapati. That’s a postulation that has to be done. So devotion is also see, it’s devotion. At its worst case, it can lead to hypocrisy, where a person is showing off so that they can get some pleasure.

Krishna talks about that somebody may be showing off that they have they are completely controlling their senses, but in their mind, they’re constantly contemplating sense objects and whenever they get opportunity, they’ll pounce and enjoy. So that’s hypocrisy. And the second is it can lead to violence. At a religious level, when each religion is trying to show off how great we are, how powerful we are, then that religion becomes not so much about being a path to God. Different religions we could say are different paths to climb up a mountain.

So the top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness. The bottom of the mountain is material consciousness. So now there could be different paths to go up the mountain. But some people, instead of going up the mountain, they just keep going around the mountain and they keep pulling people down from the other path that they’re going. And they keep pulling people down and that way they ensure that from my path, people are more people are going up than from your path.

But is anyone reaching the top? Doesn’t matter. No. You see here, more people are going from my path. So what happens is religion can be a spiritual path to God, but religion can also be a political path to power.

Now what is religion being used for? It depends. Somebody may chant the holy names so that they can actually come closer to God. Somebody can chant the holy names so that they can impress others and they can get votes or they can get followers. And religion can be used to indoctrinate people, to manipulate people, to brainwash people.

So why is somebody practicing religion? So utsahamay when it is there, then what happens is, so going up the path is improving myself, developing the virtues by which That is improving. But going down and pulling others down, it is all about proving that I am better than you. So when religion is a spiritual path to God, it is about improving ourselves. When it is a political path to power, it is about proving.

Proving that I am better than you. This is where hypocrisy leads to fanaticism, extremism. So the person is so enthusiastic. There is often I’ll conclude with the two points over here. In religious psychology, there is this thing called a zeal of the new convert.

That to be new convert is somebody who has come to a path new. They feel as if, you know, I have discovered the best thing in the world and everybody should get this. In one sense that is a good good thing, but the problem with that is that we become overzealous. We start becoming, too domineering, too dismissive, too disrespectful. You know, when I was introduced to Bhakti, I was I was pretty attracted to the intellectual aspects, asked a lot of questions, got a lot of answers.

And then so after that I got a job in MNC. So we would go so there is a few other students also from my same college. They also got a job. So I was staying in the temple in Pune. So the company bus would come, and then I would get into the bus.

And then it was about 1 hour drive to the place where our work was. So then there’s another student who was also there. During the bus ride, I would chant, I would hear, I would read, I would not talk with anyone. So one day this this college friend, he made a big mistake. He asked me, what are you doing?

And then the next 45 minutes, I gave him a crash course. You know, all the 6 sessions of DYAS combined together. Existence of gold, existence of God, existence of reincarnation, scientific evidence for this, the difference between material world and spiritual world, how mayavad is wrong, and how no Devata worship, only Krishna worship. He says like, I was so caught, congratulating you guys. You know, what a crash course.

I didn’t realize also he was on the course to a crash. So after that, he got out, and he went away. So after that, my stop would come first. I’ll get in the bus. And then after that, the bus has 2 doors.

So he would peep in and see where I’m sitting, and he would come from the other door and sit as far as so after many years, I met him in Seattle. So apparently, his sister had become a devotee, and his sister had undone the damage that I had done. So actually, his sister met me, and he told me, do you remember this? His name was Kripasankar. Do you remember Kripasankar?

He said, yes. So then he’s my brother. Okay. Then I asked him, how is he? So then, we talked and he said, no, he sometimes comes to the temple.

He said, I would like to meet him, then we met, and then he was a little initially afraid of me. But but it is interesting, you know. So he said afterwards, he said, you have changed. Okay. I said, what do you mean?

He said, you know, when you became before you became before you started coming to this path, actually, I felt that you were very humble. But after you became a devotee, you became very arrogant. And now you have become humble again. So it’s interesting, so how I didn’t think I had become arrogant. Who knows?

It’s very difficult to know if we have our arrogance or not. But, you know, I was just over enthusiastic and that over enthusiasm was seen as arrogance. That so what happens is people pursue things differently. So that is the state of utsahamayi, where what happens is we are so enthusiastic that we think we are doing something to attract people, but we are scaring people away. And so our enthusiasm is good.

It’s we often want to push people also. But, you know, while pushing people, we have to be watching whether I’m pushing people toward Krishna or away from Krishna. Isn’t it? Both can happen. So if you’re pushing too much and if people are not interested, then okay, what happens in the so the second point I’ll conclude with this is, so why is the zeal of the new convert there?

Because there is a certain level of insecurity that if I can’t prove to this person that my path is the right path, then I will have doubts whether my path is the right path. Isn’t it? So it’s like my faith is based at least partly on my success in convincing others about my faith. But if I have had experience, if I have found myself being transformed, then my faith is not so insecure. So in one sense, this, Bhakti san Thakur has has attested, like, aggressive aggressive faith.

Now this is a paraphrased quote. I don’t remember the exact quote, but something like that. Aggressive faith or aggressive aggressive preaching, that can be a mask for atheism. Or like what did they say? Something has said, like aggressiveness in your preaching.

That can be atheism means you are you are yourself insecure in your faith. So sometimes people who are very, very aggressive, that that is the that that could be very well a reason for that. And I if I can’t convince you, then is what I’m doing right or not? Well, if I am deeper enough in my feet, I understand that I am on my spiritual journey. This person is on their spiritual journey and at the right time they will understand.

Krishna is in their heart also. So it’s not that I have to convince everyone to myself be convinced. So that’s why over a period of time, the zeal of new, the new convert, it needs to decrease. We still want to share with others, but that sharing should not come out of our insecurity. Like I was talking with 1 devotee kid, he was born in a devotee family, and very intelligent.

He’s favorable to bhakti, not a bhakta now. So he said, throughout my childhood, I was never sure whether my parents loved me as a person. I always felt that I was like a trophy of their devotion for their community. A prophecy of their devotion. That means what?

Oh, you know, see, I am such a nice parent because my child is such a nice devotee. My child signs so many rounds, my child will memorize so many shlokas. Now that is a natural desire if the parents have got something good, they want to share it with their children. But if the parents don’t show love to the child, then what the child feels is, do you really care for me at all? Or am I just like a trophy for you to show?

Or you know, just say so that, am I a tool for you to get to be praised in your community? So now that is very damaging for children. If a child feels like that, that my parents don’t love me actually at all. So You know, our love for our children should not be dependent on whether they become devotees or not. We should give them the facility to practice bhakti, but we have a relationship with them and Krishna has arranged for our relationship to be there.

So we need to play our role in that relationship. Even when Prabhupad, met his Guru Maharaj in 1922, he writes over there that, you know, if I had not been married, I would have immediately joined my my spiritual master’s mission. But he said, now I was married, I had a wife, I had a child, he said, it would have been unfair to them for me to abandon them. So Prabhupada for almost 3, 3 and a half decades did discuss the responsibilities. So the idea is that sometimes we don’t really care for people at all.

People so this can become for parents and children. This can also become for preachers and those who we are preaching to. Those who are preaching to, they are trophies for us to show to our seniors. And then that is not a very good attitude. So that over a period of time we need to understand that that yes, I want to share Krishna bhakti.

I want to have an impact in the world, but I shouldn’t be so insecure that if I can’t show the impact in the world, then that means my devotion is not good. Or that instead of caring for people, I’m only caring for showing others my devotion through people. It shouldn’t be like that. That is it can be not only harmful for our devotion, but can be harmful for others devotion also. So to some extent it happens gradually.

That initially, we will be attracted toward the externals, and that’s not a bad thing. But over a period of time, we need to move from the externals toward the internals. In the Gopi Gita, there’s one nice verse. The Gopis say They say that your smile destroys the pride of the devotees. So the the Gopi Gita, each verse is actually a call to Krishna.

Please come back. And the implication over there is, Krishna, if you are thinking that we became proud and because of our pride you have abandoned us, then Krishna, if you come and smile before us and seeing your smile is so attractive, it is so enriching that at that time the devotee feels, what is the pleasure of this pride? Pride gives some pleasure when people praise us. But as compared to that, the beauty of beholding Krishna with our eyes, the beauty of holding Krishna in our heart, that is so much more than the pleasure of pride. It is just dums.

No. It’s destroyed. So for all of us, we might be doing tarangrangini, we might be utsahamay, but then over a period of time we need to start seeing that, yes, actually the pleasure in remembering Krishna is much more than the pleasure of showing others our service to Krishna or even of just seeing the results of our service in this world. So both they’re valuable, but what is much more valuable is our connection with Krishna. So in one sense, we may start with if you’re going towards Krishna.

So this is Krishna at the end. So sometimes there are things along the way which may also attract us. But when these fringe benefits are there, we can see. If we get them well and good, we accept them and we keep moving towards Krishna. But in pursuing them, we want to make sure that we don’t go away from Krishna.

So over a period of time, we understand that the fruit that Krishna is greater than Krishna’s blessings. Even if those blessings are in terms of service in this world, or service results in this world. So services okay. I distributed so many books. Service results is I was, I was glorified as the number one book distributor.

So service and service result, they are important, but it is Krishna who is more important. So this is as we get that realization, we’ll go beyond the staranagarangini and the utsahamayi. So I’ll summarize what we discussed. The last two challenges in bhakti, in Anarthi Nilukti we discussed. The first was Tarangarangini.

So here I discuss 3 main points. I talked about how when somebody is practicing bhakti that there are, there there is the peripherals in which we may seek pleasure. So pleasure in peripherals. Now that can happen because that is itself the starting motive, or that can happen because that becomes distracting to us with time. Then I talk about organized religion and how it can it is often something which alienates people.

But what happens is people get attracted to the infrastructure, like the riverbed. Organized religion, we could say like the river. The infrastructure used for that is like the riverbed. So we get caught in the riverbed, and we try to get like, it’s like building a dam to take away things. So we want to to prevent this.

We need to remind ourselves, remember our aim, why we came here. Then we also have pure association. Those who are focused on Krishna. And then we need to monitor our emotions, Especially if we get too discouraged by something, too frustrated by something then that may be an indication that we are too caught by external. Discuss about right at the start of his outreach when he came to America he was satisfied.

At the end when Juhu temple couldn’t be completed he was never bitter. So basically what happened is, in our bhakti there is transcending and there is transforming. So while we want both, we need to make sure that if there is success and there is happiness. So best is we get both, but if we get happiness without success we need to gracefully accept that. If there is no success, no happiness, there’s certainly a challenge, but if there’s no success but happen, there’s no happiness but success, this is dangerous Because then we may start succeeding seeking the success alone and start thinking that is the that is the proof of my devotion.

And then it is these 2 are not that different but here it’s primarily we are showing off. So showing off that we are a great devotee and we get pleasure through that. So in this case, the idea is religion becomes not a path to God, but a path to power and prestige in this world. And that’s when religions, either we can at this stage, it’s either hypocrisy or extremism. Where hypocrisy means I try to show off what I am not.

Extremism means I end up trying to destroy others to prove that I am better than them. It’s like proving becomes much more important than improving myself. So we discussed also the zeal of the new convert and how we need to go beyond that. Initially, we may look for the externals in Krishna Bhakti, but over a period of time, we realize that Krishna is greater than Krishna’s blessings. Be they material or even they be the spiritual.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So I think we don’t have time for question answers now. How many of you have questions as such? 1, 2, 3.

Okay. 4, 5. Let’s plan either tomorrow day after tomorrow morning, we’ll have questions. Please note down your questions. Or we’ll see tomorrow we have 2 sessions on this talk only?

But then, Prabhupad will do day after morning? Okay. Sure. So today evening, we’ll continue this then. We’ll have questions at that time.

Thank you very much.