When people betray us – Ramayana wisdom

Hare Krishna. Happy to be here amongst all of you today. And I’ll speak today based on the Rama end. The valley is coming tomorrow, but it’s already there today depending on which part of the world we are in or which part of the world’s calendar we follow. So I’ll speak on the theme of relationships.

I have written a book on the Ramayana called wisdom from Ramayana on life and relationships, and I’ll talk about within relationship the theme of betrayal. When people betray us, how do we respond to that? And broadly, I’ll talk 3 case studies and we look at the dynamics within that. Three places where somebody felt betrayed. It is very revealing about human psychology that quite often when A feels betrayed by B.

A feels I am the right and B is wrong. It is quite often B also feel betrayed by So I was at a the mediation session. 2 devotees so 2 devotees are trying to mediate. So one devotee came and said, I know you are angry with me. And the other devotee said, no.

I’m not angry with you. Sometimes you say I am not angry also in a tone that is angry. I’m not angry with you. Anger is an expensive emotion. You are not worth it.

It’s one thing to be angry with someone. I find another to be almost trivialize and dehumanize somebody else. You are not worth it. So some situations it is almost impossible to resolve. But still we will try to see what causes things to go down.

So these 3 incidents I’ll talk about is Kaikeyi and Dasharat, then Wali and Sugri, and then Ravan and Kumbagat. Generally, we don’t feel betrayed by people who are far away from us. Because betrayal is a very intense emotion. And it’s only when we trust someone. When we when somebody comes close to us, we trust them.

Then they turn against us. They do something opposite of what we expected. That’s when we feel betrayed. So generally we see that our pain in a relationship is proportional to the emotion investment relationship. Say, if he comes close to someone and we expect we we we think we have done something good and we expect them them to pat us on the back and they can’t give us a slap.

Hey. What happened? Anytime a slap is the slap is shocking. But especially when we are expecting a pat and we get a slap, That is unbelievable. It’s so shocking that increases the pain.

So somehow or the other the world is structured in such a way that things often go wrong. When they go wrong at that time, so we all try to try to somehow firstly come to terms with what has happened. And then secondly, try to find some cause for what has happened. And often we’re trying to find a cause, we pin the blame on someone. It is said that success has many parents whereas failure is usually born an orphan.

Everybody wants to pass the blame to everyone else whenever there’s failure. So let’s look at the first incident. The first incident is in the Ramayana, Ram is to be enthroned as the king. Now Ram is among the 4 brothers, the eldest. He’s also the noblest.

And it’s expected that he will become the king. That’s a principle traditionally called as primogeniture. And so Dasharat accordingly appointed and decided that Ram will become the Greek. And somehow Kaikeyi because she had become the favorite queen of Basharath. She expected certain special entitlement, certain special privileges.

Quite often for us what happens we all have a certain entitlement mentality. So when we keep getting something, we start expecting that I deserve it. Whether we actually deserve it or not, we start expecting it and then rather to be grateful for what we have got, we start becoming resentful when we don’t get it. In today’s world, we have a lot more comfort than what we had maybe even a few decades ago or to speak of few centuries ago. But then if one thing doesn’t go properly, we get quite disturbed.

I saw a cartoon itself today my world has come crashing down. So what happened other people’s narcissist there’s no Wi Fi connection. Of course, somebody may have some important work to do, but still to say that world has come crashing down. It’s quite a exaggeration, but people don’t feel like that. They don’t feel so it’s a disaster.

So Kaikiri, and she was the youngest, she started expecting that she would get some special privilege. And that feeling was further exploited by mantra. And later on, Ram speaks something to Bharat to Lakshman, which is not spoken anywhere in the Ramayana, the Valmiki Ramayana, anywhere else. He speaks it only once and he alone speaks it. That is he says don’t be angry with Kaikeyi.

He’s pacifying. Lakshman is furious. He says how dare this atrocious thing happened to you? You have done no wrong and still you have been exiled. So horrible.

Exile is only is the worst of punishment. Just one level below execution. How dare this happen to you? And then at that time, Ram says, actually, it’s natural for to expect Bharat to be in the case. Now you are going to be a test.

She says, no. But this was the bride price promised to her in the time of her marriage. There are 2 concepts that the dowry and there’s bride price. Dowry is what is you usually at the name of the marriage is given by the girl side to the boy side. Bride price is what is given by the boy side to the girl side.

So bad price is common in in some pride in Africa and even the Mahabharata, there’s a mention to that mention of that when Vishnu goes to have goes to seek the hand of Madri, to Madras to Chennai. So now he goes there. At that time, her brother, her father is no longer there. Brother is more influential. So he says, in our in our tradition, it is the boy who use a bright prize.

He says, I know about this bismasies. And say I already arranged for lavish gifts to be brought. So there is a lot of diversity within the Indian epics. Not that some the whole idea that Indian India was India has this dowry system. I saw this commentary.

Now this has all come in the recent centuries because of the excess of materialism. But traditionally, there were the tradition the different places are different tradition and there was no imposition. There’s no demand. But, anyway, now this is the various Ramayan commentators are ambiguous. They some of them said that Ram is saying this just to pacify Lakshman.

There is no reference anywhere else. If that had been a promise then would surely have brought it up when she was making the demand. And she didn’t have to even ask for those 2 vows. I’m entitled directly. But anyway, the point here is made feel as if Dasharat is betraying her.

And Dasharat only acted as if you are very dear to me. But now in the real time to come to show, to show one’s affection, to show one’s real color, it said that you can talk big things, but put your mouth, what do you think? Put your mouth where your money is or put your money where your mouth is. So, you know, do the walk your talk. So as so he showed so much affection to me but add the time and the real thing is to be done, he’s enthralled son.

This is a betrayal. Oh, she doesn’t bring in the bride price so that is quite unlikely. But just that she felt it. It’s my I am the dearest. So my son should become the next.

At least, Manthara made her feel as if you are being betrayed. There’s a conspiracy of food and you have to do whatever it takes. And when she went and demanded from Dasharat that give me these 2 goals, and Dasharat was in a very happy mood. Like, one of the Ramayan commentators says that when you are happy, never make any promises to anyone. So he said that 2 things.

When you are angry, don’t don’t speak anything. Don’t speak in anger. You speak in anger, you will give the best speech that you will regret. And when you are happy, don’t promise him. So Rashid is very happy and he says whatever you want.

In fact, he says, thrice in the name of Ram. Whatever you ask, I will do it. And then when she says send Ram to the forest for 14 years and and through Bharat is the king, Ashut feels totally betrayed, And the betrayal is extremely painful. It is he I’m bound by my words that I had to do what you tell me to. But because you have betrayed me such a terrible way since I reject you.

I reject you as my wife. And it is Ram who remembers that and describe later that when, Ram defeats Raul at that time, Dasharat also appears along with the gods in the sky. And then Ram offers his respects to Dasharat and Ram asks, no, please just accept Khetri back. Please forgive her for what she did. Whatever she did was ordained by destiny.

And Shraddha’s also anger has gone down and he accepts it. So in this case, when both of them feel as if they have been betrayed. Feel that that which I was entitled to, that has been taken away from me. And, Dasharat, how could somebody within my own family demand something like this from me? So we could say in this situation that objectively speaking, you could say one side is right and one side is wrong.

Who is right, broadly speaking? Mushroom. Mushroom is right. And was wrong. Now still we will see that there is no there is no punishment for Kik.

Now if we consider, let’s go to the we’ll come back to come to the second incident, and then we’ll go to 3rd incident. Just the second incident I mentioned. Valley Valley and Sugri. So now in this case, Valley and Sugri were the best of they’re not just brothers, but they’re also the best of friends. They were together always.

And Sugri was the most trusted assistant of all. But somehow or the other the nature of the world is that every relationship will be tested. Even the closest of relationships either the other person will do something or some situation will come up that will pursue things in a particular way. And in this case, I won’t go into the whole story. But, basically, Mayavi was a demon who tried to attack Ishkinder, and Vali and Sugri both went in chase of him.

And mayavi went into a into a cave and then Wale went inside the cave. And Sukhiri waited for a long time, but he couldn’t find he he couldn’t hear no sound of Wale at all. And finally, he heard the scream of the demon. And he heard that no sound of Walli scream of the demon. Walli has been killed.

And he started thinking that if Walli has been killed and Walli is much more powerful than me. So if that demon comes out, how will I be able to stop him? He will consider the defenseless and he may destroy the whole kingdom. This is what do I do. Then he decided he got a huge boulder and covered the mouth of the queue with it.

And then he went back with a heavy heart. There was an state wide period of mourning because the emperor king had been killed. And then the minister said that we need a king. So Angad is too young. You become the king.

And when he became the king at that time, what happened? He was he was ruling and then one day, Wally came back and Wally’s eyes were bloodshot. While he had searched for a long time in the cave, it was not it was just a cave, it was like a catacomb complex maze of passage base. And he had to search for a long time he had got tired by that. He wanted to conserve his energy.

And so he just did short work of the demon, but he did not, he did not roar in victory like he would normally do. And when he came out, saw the door was blocked. He looked and looked and he said, I took a shot and couldn’t move. I realized that this could not have come like this on its own. On its own, it couldn’t have come.

And at that time, I had to push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and already exhausted. It took him a long time to push and get out. And he’s thinking and come out. Finally, when he came out, he thought, I’m so sorry. There is a suspicion.

Did so could you do this? So we can’t do this. But this couldn’t I just it comes so precise as a big boulder. It’s here precisely put on the mouth. It can’t have happened by chance.

So then he came back and then saw also breathing the throne. Just exploded. Sugri was delighted to see Ali back. Supreme was also alert. He saw Ali’s anger while he’s charging toward.

So he he he had no intention of fighting. He just folded his hands and he he wanted to explain and welcome. So Bali was furious and he was also powerful. A pounding Sugri Sugri was trying to trying to explain trying to calm his brother down. Finally, Sugri decided that rather than while he managed to let me go now.

I’ll come back later. Unfortunately, when Sribri fled, while he started thinking, why did he flee? If he were not guilty, why would he flee? He can he can confirm for it. And in this way, there’s a permanent rupture between that.

Now, while he felt betrayed, I had asked you to assist me to guard the entrance and he tried to block me and take all my income. And so who you felt betrayed? That he just attacked me with the without even seeking to hear for me, without even trying to understand my side of the story? Okay. It’s something we are in a close relationship.

If we are suspected also that pains a lot. But it’s one thing to be suspected. It’s another thing to be convicted. They feel I had been convicted without being heard. How can this be?

It became so painful. As if that was not bad enough. Volley somehow even the best of people sometimes get affected by some dark tendencies with them. So then he decided that if I cannot get Sugriya, I’ll get back at Sugriya. And then he appropriated Sugriya’s wife for himself, and that was unbearable for Sugriya.

And then when they came to know about it when Ram came to know about it Ram was furious and eventually the situation becomes so far. Now if it’s one thing to just have a conflict between 2 people misunderstanding But by that time, it had become too far, gone too far. And Ram came in between and Ram shot Wally. And now, of course, we can go into the ethics of what Ram did, but suffice it to say that Vali Raman Raman describes that Sugary Vali himself, how dare you do like this? It’s unfair.

Then Ram gives a long explanation. And Ram says that you are basically a monkey. Yes. And animals can be killed in any way. He knows more than that he said you are aggressor, you are a sinful aggressor.

A sinful aggressor can be killed in any way and then he says if you still feel the long answer to long after that is if you still feel that what I have done is wrong. He he said, I I’m ready to give you back your life. And while he of now that he’s fallen to the ground, his pride has been also pounded. He hears Ram’s words and all that painful he realizes that they are true. He is currently wrong, Sugri.

And there’s a very moving reconciliation between Vali and Sugri at that time. Ram’s arrows are so powerful that Ram can very easily one arrow of Ram could kill anyone and although Vali’s body has been pierced with Ram’s arrow, Vali does not die immediately because Wally has a jewel necklace given by his father in the room. And as long as that necklace is on his body, he will not die. Now naturally a father would want to give something so precious and so powerful to his own son But Wally gives him to supreme. He said, I offended you badly.

And please accept this. And as soon as the joint necklace leaves Wally’s body, while life leaves also on his body. But before that, he tells the tells, please don’t, be angry with Tara or Angadha. Tara often counsel me to reconcile with you. Angad is innocent.

And he tells Angad also, don’t hold anything against. I have been killed because of my own estates. Angad is not responsible. So he make sure that there is no further tension. Now, in this case, there is betrayal and there is reconciliation.

I talked about there is no direct reconciliation between Kaikeyi and Dashwat but Ram does that At least, any Ram tells also. But Dashwat has forgiven. And in this case, Ram again comes in between, and he does a reconciliation. Now if you consider the 3rd case. What are the 3rd case?

And in this case, quite often people say, Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I should have said.

I think Kumar also applies in some ways. So revision. So now many people feel that revision was he betrayed his betrayed his brother. Well, it’s yes and no. It depends on there are broadly this is a big subject, I mentioned briefly.

There are 2 conceptions of ethics you could say. There is categorical ethics and there is contextual ethics. Categorical ethics means this is right and this is wrong. And these 2 are these are impervious categories. Anything in this category is always right.

Anything in this category is always wrong. Contextual ethics is where, yes, there are categories, but beyond that we have to consider context. And what context means basically when we are we consider contextual ethics, we look at 3 things. Intent, content, and consequence. Why somebody doing something?

What are they doing? And what is the result of what they’re doing? So, yes, one should be faithful to one’s family. One should be faithful to one’s brother. So just said Bharat was faithful to Ram.

Lakshman was faithful to Ram. So similarly, that that ethic is when he was talking about in the Ramayana but in the Bhishan is glorified. Although he turned against Ravana. Why? Because Bhishan considered that I am not just a member I’m not just the brother of Rao.

Lord. I am a member of the royal dynasty. And our entire royal dynasty has a duty to protect the Rakshasa dynasty, the Rakshasas. If the current king of the Rakshasas for his own selfish lusty desires is pro cause broken a wall that is going to destroy the whole Rakshasas dynasty. Then greater than my duty to my brother is my duty to artisans.

And he has 3 options at that time. Either he can do a insurrection coup, a rebellion against Rawan, take over the kingdom and oppose the and call off the war so that there’s no devastation of Lanka. Other option is he can just renounce the world. Just this this this politics is a messy business. I just announce the world and take to Anaprastha and go with Malayas.

And third is he can go over to Ram’s side. You can hear Ram, your enmity is with Ravana. Your enmity is not with the Rakshasa dynasty. And, yes, there are some Rakshasa supporting him, but not everyone supports. And in that way, he can prevent the whole he can prevent the wholesale enmity between the Rakshasa and the Manavas headed by Ram.

And he feels the first he can’t do because Ram is too powerful, people are too fearful of him. 2nd, he feels a little responsibility. The third option for him is go over to Ram’s side, and that’s what he does. So rather than considering that Kumbhakaran betrayed Ravan, we can say Ravan betrayed his own dynasty. Just for his own desires, he was ready to call destruction the whole dynasty.

So it is we have to see the bigger context. Yes, in the immediate context, yes. And when we go to the opposite side of Raul, but Raul had gone to the opposite side of what a Kaptri has been doing. So not only was he not only had he abductors, which is a moral, but for that, for maintaining, holding on to her, he was casting his whole kingdom into danger. So in this case, tried desperately to stop to stop.

Raul, he persuaded him a back dream. He put his crown on his feet. He said, if you feel I have a multitude of motives, no, I will resign right now, but please don’t reject my words. And Raul just nonchalantly disrespectfully just kicks off where he kicks on his crown. It is no need to and then there’s no no option left for Kumbhakaran for Rav the vision at that time.

Now Kumbhakaran had once said is considered to be faithful. But Kumbhakaran’s problem is that he it is because of him and he’s assuring him that Ravan continues with the war. So somebody’s going on the wrong track and we support them. So more then that is that is fear actually not only us doing wrong, we are encouraging others to do wrong. So so based on all these three examples, so now in this case, there is no reconciliation between the vision and Rahul.

There’s a fight. At the end of which vision specifically guides around how to bring down the foremost warriors in Ravana’s army, and eventually, Ram is killed. But there also, Ram is instrumental. Ram says that in the last when in the last rights of everyone who’s been killed at Rakshasaheb has been performed, Vibhishan says that Raul was so cool. He said, I don’t I don’t feel like doing his last rights.

And Ram becomes very grieve and Ram says the soul is always pure. And even if in a particular body, soul has done something wrong through death, the that particular actions, reactions have been given now. And now do your duty to help Ravana’s soul go to an auspicious destination. And then Rauner Vadishant does exactly that as per Ram’s right. So now we see that here in the third case there was no reconciliation We could say that in the case of and Ashrath, there was reconciliation but not directly.

But was never held responsible. Was not punished directly. Vibishan sorry. Vali and Sugri, there was reconciliation before that, but Vali had to die. And with Ravan and Kumbakar Ravan and Vibishan, there was with sorry, Vibhishan and Ravan, there was no reconciliation, but at least Ram mentioned that there is no animosity toward the soul.

So if you look at these three broad things, I like to differentiate between 2 main things that there is weakness and there is wickedness. Weakness is when we all have certain impurities with us. Maybe lust, maybe anger, maybe greed and because of these we sometimes do things that we are not that we ourselves know we should not. So we all have some inner guards within us which protect us from impurities. 1 is our conscience and the other is our intelligence.

Our intelligence rationally tells us don’t do this. Don’t do this. Don’t do this. And our conscience may our intelligence our conscience makes us feel bad. Conscious emotionally tells us.

We feel bad on doing bad. So both of these are our inner guards and for people who have weakness, what happens? Sometimes the impurity overpowers the intelligence of the conscience And then when that happens, we sometimes do something wrong. But after doing that wrong thing, we after something, we what did I do? Why did I do that?

We regret it, And we want to fix things as much as possible. So this is a weakness, and we all have weaknesses. Now opposed to weakness, quite different from weakness is wickedness. Wickedness is where a person’s conscience has almost died. So they are so repeatedly kept doing wrong that the conscience doesn’t even feel that I’m doing something bad.

So to actually to feel to not feel bad on doing bad is bestially bad. Like, person has become a bit almost like a beast at that time. And not only their conscious number endowment, but their intelligence is perverted. And intelligence perverted means that they use their intelligence to do bad things in such a way that they did not get caught by it. And they will do even bad things in such a way that they will hurt the other person the most.

So you could say weakness is hot headed. Wickedness is cold blooded. Hot headed means in the heat of the moment we speak something or we do something. So temptation comes, provocation comes and we do something that’s weakness. But wickedness is very, very systematic planning is there.

So if you’re in a crowded road, in a crowded room and we are rushing somewhere and then we accidentally put our foot on step on somebody’s foot. And then as soon as we realize it, oh, I’m sorry. I regret it. But suppose somebody steps on somebody’s foot and they notice And then they deliberately so now that is not an accident. That is intentionally done to cause pain to someone else.

That is wickedness. Now, weakness can and should be forgiven. But wickedness we can to give forgiveness to wickedness is often often foolishness. Because because the wicked person does not feel I am doing anything wrong they will keep doing it again and again and again. So now when people betray us or it so now there are broadly three possibility many broadly three possibilities.

When we feel betrayed, although the the other person is actually not doing anything to betray us. That is case you can see. We just feel betrayed because things have happened in a particular way and they we it’s our subject to feeling other than objective reality. The second possibility is that we feel betrayed and other person has done something also wrong, previously wrong. But it was not intentional.

It is circumstantial. It was accident. And the third is, if the head the other person has done wrong and has knowingly intentionally done wrong. So whenever some basically, betrayal we could mean that it’s it’s not only the other person does not do what they are expected to do, that may disappoint us. But they do the exact opposite of what we expected them to do.

So that is betrayal. Say, a soldier is meant to defend the country. But instead the soldier gives all the secrets of the country the opposite. So there is there is a difference between a betrayer and a deserter. A deserter is a soldier who will observe it from Portugal.

But betrayer is one who goes to join the opposite side. So when people don’t do what we expect them to that is disappointing but people do the opposite and not the disappointing that is that we feel is a betrayal, it’s treachery. So when this has happened in general, it is best to give others the benefit of doubt. Sometimes we just we may presume that this person is wicked. And anger blinds us to context.

Anger makes us feel like how could this person think like this? How could this person look like this? How dare she think? And in this case, if you consider, between Vali and Sugri, Vali thought that Sugri had been wicked. And what happened because of that?

Valley thought Sugri was wicked and because of that Valley himself became wicked. So it is actually very difficult, to rather it’s very easy if we see wickedness in other words that becomes our justification for wickedness in ourselves. If you did like this I will definitely do it, why should I not, why should I hold myself back. So what happens is in this case the perception itself was so yes, we can say that Wali did some, Subhir did something wrong. But Subhir did the best that he could in that situation.

Subhir had no specific desire to overthrow Wali and take the kingdom. So it was a mistake, but it was not easy. It was not intentional. It was a circumstance. In the case of Vishnu and Ravan, it is Ravan had done this many times in the past.

He had abducted many, many, maidens and others, and he had got them into his own palace. And for him, it is a habit. In this particular case, he challenged someone who is too powerful. He provoked someone who is too powerful. So maybe he should warn them, but he didn’t listen.

So when when we when these three broad possibilities are there, when we feel betrayed by someone. So first is, in general, give people the benefit of doubt. Now, so we see that it’s often weakness that now when you see that, when did she come to our senses? Heard of something horrible? When do you think she came to our senses?

Yeah. Yeah. Something Bharat came and Bharat castigated her. He said, you are not alone. You’re not her mother.

You are the goddess of destruction. He was the destruction incarnated in our dynasty to destroy our whole dynasty. And he spoke like this. She was she thought I’m doing all this for Bharat. And and that was what Joy did.

So when somebody has some weakness and they are under the spell of that weakness, now we could say what she did was wrong, and so when I say that was weaker for her to do it. But while she was under that spell, she did not listen to anyone. So mantra the minister tried to tell. Vashishta tried to explain. Dashan himself tried to explain, but nothing affected it.

Right? And so at that time, whoever tried to explain something to her, that only made her feel that she started thinking I’m a victim. I alone am trying to defend the rights of my son Bharat, and the whole world is in this plot to take away the kingdom from him. So she just couldn’t listen. So when somebody is under the grip of that weakness, it can be sometimes so strong that they just don’t listen to anyone.

Now why did she listen to Bharat? Because she trusted Bharat. And she she thought she was doing all this for Bharat. And she thought she she thought she loved Bharat and she thought Bharat loved it. So, basically, for all of us, we are here, our mind is here, and the world is here.

And we look at the world through the mind. We look at the world through the mind. And people’s actions also we interpret based on our mind. If somebody starts speaking very sweetly with us, immediately our minds are saying, what does this person want from me? Why are they speaking so sweetly with me?

So now we need to some extent see our mind in this lead us immensely. And it is society which to some extent society and the people around us, they keep us to some extent safe. We are immensely social creatures. Even some people say I just want to be alone. But so imagine right now I’m speaking something.

If I speak some sentence and every one of you starts glaring at me. Not just staring, but glaring at me. Immediately I start the I I speak something wrong. What happened? So now, in general so if you are driving on the road and we take a wrong turn, and immediately, oh, maybe I took a wrong turn.

So to some extent, our mind can provide us many, many options and mind can mislead us. But society keeps us sane. Not always. I mean, society can also make us insane. But in general, if we are living in a reasonably orderly society, the mind can come up with many disorderly ideas, disorderly desires.

But then the society around us keeps us keeps us orderly. And that’s why the kind of social circle we have around us is important. And we need at least some people in our lives, at least one person, whom we trust more than our mind. Whom we trust more than our mind. That means everybody I look like this.

You are here. I am here. You are here. I am here. The mind is here.

But for some people, it’s like this. Okay? I’m here. My mind is here. You are here.

So to be open minded means actually this. Right? And imagine if this cloth is here. If it is here, then I can see this cloth, and I can look at you also. The closer I bring to this cloth to myself, this tissue paper to myself, what happens?

I can’t see anything except the tissue paper. So if it’s right over my eyes, I can’t see anything except the tissue Instead of this tissue paper, there is a colored glass over here. Then if this glass has a distance, I can see maybe it’s a red colored glass. I can see everything red through this, and I can see everything is not red also. So wherein we are there are different kinds of attachments.

In the mode of ignorance, people are attached to escapism. In the mode of passion, we are attached to possessions. In the mode of goodness, we are attached to opinions. I am right and you are wrong. So when we are really attached to our opinions, we just can’t see what the other person see because it’s too close to us.

So, basically, we we we all have different ideas that you hold at different distances. Some we are very this is how it is. And even say, for example, when you practice Bhakti, We all have certain conceptions of how a devotee should be. And based on those conceptions, we think a devotee means you should not eat any food outside. A devotee means you wake up in the morning.

A devotee means you come to program every Sunday. A devotee means you should they should do this. A devotee means you should do this. Yes. All these are aspects of being a devotee.

But what happens to each so to say individually, so to speak. Now if we have only one particular prominent conception of a devotee and that person doesn’t start doing that, then what happens? Useless. Useless. What do you know?

So I’ve got a devotee who told me about another devotee. He says, when I go in his presence in that so this devotee look at that. And I go in that devotee’s presence, I feel I have to explain I have to justify my existence as a devotee to this person. So we all have certain opinions and strong opinions about certain things. And then we see through the filter of that.

And that’s just unavoidable. We are individuals and we will have our opinions. But if we have at least some people whom we are ready to hear, then okay, this is my understanding and this is this person’s understanding. Let me examine it. Let me examine it.

And then if you examine it, then we are no longer caught in the grip of that impurity. We have come out of that weakness. But for Kaike, she came out soon, and Kaike didn’t have a evil heart. And although this she did something wrong, I mean, terribly wrong, but she was not considered responsible. In general, we see that Ram also tell that it is a part of the plan of destiny that she was that he was exile and he came to the forest.

But something similar is not said for Wani. But if destiny, the one of which he sugree you he he did he sent sugary away. Because, you know, as I said, he did something clean to stay wrong. It is one thing to one thing to drive sugary away, but it’s quite another thing to it is almost like incest for a older brother to be with the wife of the younger brother, and that was extremely serious. And in this case, he because he was also in general, if somebody is very powerful, they also get their feeling, my opinions are right.

And then what happens after that? He just don’t listen to anyone else. So only when his power was diminished, when he was lying powerless on the ground near death at the time when he started started listening to an alternative opinion. But Ravan never listened to no matter what happened. So we could say that Valley also had weakness.

But in the pursuit of that weakness, if you see if we consider a slip mountain with a slope, a slippery slope. At the top of the mountain is weakness. At the bottom of the mountain is wickedness. So once if a person is using to weakness once, twice, thrice, 4 times, 5 times, and soon they may go down to a wickedness. You say somebody becomes a drug addict or somebody starts taking drugs.

Nowadays in American colleges, there’s a big, big fear. Big the drug epidemic is also there almost. It’s there in India also, Punjab, and few other places. But say, student life is stressful. I mean, stressful student life is, student feels that I need somebody.

I need somebody. And then somebody gives them a drug. They take it. That’s weakness. But they take it once and they take it again and again and again and again.

Then what will happen? They will start relying, they’ll start stealing, they’ll start robbing to somehow another get drugs, and then they will be generated towards wickedness. So for all of us in our close relationships, we all have weaknesses. And when somebody succumbs to a weakness, how we best see it is that say, I am here. You are here, and your weakness is made to do something because of which I feel betrayed.

So it’s natural to feel betrayed, but rather than assuming that it is wickedness on their part, we see it as weak as weakness. And the more we judge them and condemn them, And what happens? Then their energy goes into justifying what they have done rather than rectifying what they have done. And when that happens, they start getting more and more stuck with it. So we see there’s weakness, but there is a phase which came and went.

And we try to become a a partner in their fight against their weakness. And then that weakness can be overcome. But if we don’t do that, then we we succumb we presume that there’s wickedness. How could you have done this? Of course, we can ask how could you have done this but the tone matters a lot.

If we are blaming them for that we are just seeking an explanation. What made you do this? What were you thinking while doing this? Can we ask in in various ways? So so, generally, when there is whenever we feel betrayed, it is best to begin with the first.

Maybe with my perception only. I’m not being betrayed. If Kaike is just making a straight demand to Dasharat, had gone and asked Dasharat, What’s going on? Now why is, Ram’s coronation being done so quickly? Why is Bharat not present over here?

What is the hurry? And Ram could’ve Dashup could’ve explained and things could’ve been. If Valir asked, what’s going on? What could you if you just ask them, then things could have been clarified. But it’s it’s natural that when somebody does something which is which seems to us objectionable, then we feel betrayed.

But don’t don’t presume. Don’t presume. Just try to ask. And especially this is so true in the devotee community. Because sometimes, as I said, each of us has certain conceptions of what is Bhakti.

And if somebody starts doing something which is different, it is deviation. That is deviation. That is deviation. And you start passing on labels so easy. And then it just spoils so much.

It can spoil so much relationships. Our spirituality is meant to make us more understanding. But sometimes our spirituality makes us more judgmental more judgmental and then there’s a big big big fractures happen. So presume that although we feel we have right to our feelings but that doesn’t necessarily mean that just because we have a right to our feelings doesn’t mean that what we are feeling is right. Yeah.

I is the difference between the 2. Yes. I am feeling furious. I am feeling betrayed. I can understand it.

If you are perceiving it this way, you’ll feel it. But that doesn’t mean what we are feeling is right. What what what we are thinking is the way things have happened. So ask. If we just ask, a lot of things can be clarified.

Sometimes we just avoid asking and we presume this is how it is. And if it’s a first case, there is no no betrayal at all. 2nd case, there has been a betrayal, but it is because of weakness. Then in that case, we try to see first, of course, we will feel hurt. But after we get over that wound, then we try to see how we can help that person rectify, come over that weakness.

And sometimes some time has to go. It’s like, while Kaike was in that phase, nobody could make sense to her. Nothing could make sense to her. Sometimes just sometimes has to go before when somebody’s convinced about something. See, one of the understanding of the Puranas is that it’s not entirely true, but it is true to some extent that we are play things in the hands of the gods.

That’s not in time because we do have free will. But the point is based on our karma, sometimes we are overcome by forces that we ourselves don’t understand by our past karma sometimes. It’s like by past karma, sometimes a bad face may come upon us. Now we will. A lot of bad things happen to us.

So we understand there is external reaction. But sometimes we have karma, suddenly lust increases or anger increases or greed increases. It’s also a phase of karma. So if we are situated in a stable social structure with good relationships, then those relationships can help us to to not get too swept away by that phase of karma. So sometimes we if somebody’s going through that phase, just keep a distance.

Try to clarify it, but if you can’t get a clarification, just keep a distance. But don’t fix permanent labels on people. Somebody may betray us, but that doesn’t make them a lifelong betrayal. Everybody changes. And somebody has been has has lived devotionally, lived ethically for a long time in their life and then suddenly they do something terrible rather than presuming, rather than reducing their whole life to that particular misbehavior of theirs.

You see all the other thing that they’re doing. Of course, this hurts us. It heavily hurts us. But don’t reduce the person with that one action of theirs. Some now how exactly to deal with it?

That’ll vary from situation to situation. It’s not easy. Sometimes people sometimes work through somebody else. Obviously, Ram in a sense mediated. The mediation is not exactly a mediation, but Ram brought about a reconciliation.

So they got sometimes some through some years the reconciliations come up. And there are some cases when, like, in the Raman’s case, revision had to just go the full distance. Raman just had to be punished. So this is the last part which I’ll conclude That broadly speaking, whenever somebody does something wrong to us, there is some now let’s assume that they have actually done something wrong. And this assumption has to be it has to be grounded in reality.

Suppose somebody comes to us and they write a letter, you know, I have forgiven you. Oh, thank you very much. What did I do to need forgiveness? So we will presume our heart will be burning because of anything. We had an act of great spiritual strength to forgive, and the person doesn’t even know that there is something wrong to us.

So it is just like we are all different and sometimes some things hurt us very much, but other things are taking other people are taking martial art. But if somebody is forgive so if somebody what somebody has is weakness, well, then it is best to tolerate and forgive. If somebody has wickedness, then then we have to keep a distance. Sometimes we may have to take action. Somebody’s taking action or something like that.

So there’s a difference between forgiving and trusting. Forgiving is for the past, trusting is for the future. So if somebody has done something wrong, don’t fix a permanent label on them and say, this is how you are. In the past, it’s over. Forgiveness can be given, but trust needs to be honored.

Somebody has done something wrong, we can’t just presume or spite watch the past. Now say if we give some money to someone and then they lose it all, and next time they come and ask money again, again, we give it. Well, that would be foolishness. They they have shown that they have they they have learned all the maturity to handle money carefully, then you can give them if you need. So trust has to be earned.

So broadly, there are 3 possibilities when somebody does something wrong, we forgive but don’t trust. It’s the middle way. It’s the normal default. And then we forgive but don’t trust. And if they change, they improve, then we forgive and forget.

It’s over. No need to hold it against them for the rest of their lives. But sometimes, they may continue doing the wrong things, and they don’t feel as if they they we can see that they just what they’re doing is wickedness. Then we’ll have to go to 3rd level. 3rd level is what?

Forgive internally in terms of emotions. Ram told, we should not hold any grudge against, against Ramon. But forgive and then take take corrective action. And the corrective action may be taken because we want to protect ourselves from day hurting us again or from day hurting others. It could be various situations but those are generally extreme situations.

Usually, in the first and second options itself, if we are patient, and then we can’t resolve things. And in general, whenever we have this shock in our vertical horizontal relationship with others when we feel betrayed that is the time when we need the shelter of our vertical relationship. That it is if one particular horizontal relationship is our whole defining relationship. And within that, we experience betrayal, then we will be not only devastated, but we’ll be destroyed. But if we have developed our vertical relationship with Krishna, then, yes, this will cause us pain, but that particular relationship will be with us.

Krishna will be our strength, will be our shelter. And Bhakti is not just about chanting or coming to the chotsang or reading some Shastra or doing some. Bhakti is essentially about making our relationship with Krishna our foremost relationship. When we do that, when we when our defining identity becomes that I am first and foremost, I’m a solo servant of Krishna. I’m part of Krishna.

And as a part of Krishna, I’m the husband of someone, the wife of someone, and the father of someone, and the mother of someone, and the brother or sister of someone, and the son or daughter of someone, and the godbrother or the god sister of someone. All these things. When this when when we are sheltered in our primary identity, then all whatever betrayals come, they will not they will not shake us so much. Maybe shaken, but it only so much. And as a Bhakti, we can do all this analysis and it’s important definitely for to be within the practical level.

But to even to be able to do all this analysis and apply we need inner strength. And inner strength basically means inner strength is not like a physical strength you can measure. Inner strength means the strength of our relationship with Krishna. Inner strength is the how much we identify our customers with Krishna. How much we we consider that as our defining identity then whatever challenges life may send our way, we will be able to manage with them.

So I’m gonna raise what I spoke today. I spoke on the topic of when people betray us. So I talked about 3 broad cases when people betray us. 1, I stood in the Ramayana. I talked about 3 cases.

And. Yeah. So now Kaike because she was the favorite queen of Prashant, she somehow under mantra’s influence expected that my son will get some special privilege. I mean, then she didn’t get she felt betrayed. And Prashant who Prashant was betrayed because how can his own wife ask that his other son is that his sons be and he vanished the forest for no fault.

Now in this case, Ram acted as a mediation and eventually mediator and eventually sought a request to Dashrath to forgive Sita, for you, forgive. Then I discussed with Wale and Sugri that Wale was Sugri was caught in a situation where he he was he did what he thought was the best, and Wale, misunderstood. We can say even Subhiri misunderstood the sit misread the situation, but Subhiri had no options at that time. He did the best that he could. Wally also missed the situation.

He could have clarified he didn’t. And then Ram again intervened before the death, there was reconciliation. Before the death of Wally, there was reconciliation. In the case of and, Raul, Raul was a habitual wrongdoer, and betrayed his brother, but he remained faithful to his dynasty and to his kingdom. So there is contact categorical ethics will say that we we should be treated by the way.

Contextual ethics will help to understand that. Actually, what is the purpose of faithfulness? The context, he ensured he prevented the wholesale destruction of the whole dynasty. And then I talked about these two concepts of weakness and wickedness. Weakness is where somebody does something wrong because the the force of the impurity overpowers their conscience and their influence temporarily.

How long the temporary will be? Vary from place to person to person. Wickedness, whereas their conscience has been completely silenced and the intelligence has become converted. So weakness deserves forgiveness, wickedness deserves punishment. So when we deal with others, it there are 3 dot when we feel we are betrayed by others.

The 3 possibility. 1 is it just our feeling. And then it’s best to ask and clarify in non judgmental ways. Our emotions and our perceptions rather our opinions are emotional perceptions they are like a lens the closer we bring to it the less we can see anything apart from what that is being shown. So our association, our social circle often is the check which ensures that our mind doesn’t draw us in drive us insane.

And we need someone whom we trust as much if not more than our mind. Our mind gives a particular version that person you there’s another version and we’re ready to listen to it. So if we ask quite often, we may find that we we will not be betrayed. We just thought like that. And if they’ve been if we even if we have been betrayed and that will rather than as rather than fixing a permanent label on that person that you are a target person, we see that it’s a phase and then we we outweigh the phase.

And then we rather than, blaming them, we try to see how we can help them overcome that phase. And third is, of course, if somebody is wicked, they’re not having any indication of reforming at all. And then we will still forgive internally, but externally we seek some corrective action. So broadly speaking, when you feel betrayed, we can forgive but withhold trust. Trust needs to be owned back if they have done something wrong.

And if they rectify, then forgive and forget. If they don’t rectify, then forgive and seek corrective action. And when this kind of trauma happens in our life where somebody betrays us, then at that time, our every relationship will be tested in some way or the other like this. But if we have got our shelter in our vertical relationship with Krishna, then we would be so so shaken, so traumatized. And Bhakti is not just about, doing certain rituals, but it’s about making making our relationship with Krishna our central relationship.

That is the essence of inner strength, and that inner strength can help us to survive and perceive here through outer storms when people behave in shocking ways. Thank you very much. So you mentioned several people who were betrayed. Some people you indirectly mentioned, but you didn’t, go into their case. These were the women who had been abducted by Robin previous to SITA.

So Robin was a Kshatriya, and he had power and Kshatriya had power in order to protect karma. So but he and he was the the ruler of the kingdom, but he therefore betrayed the his Kshatriya and Harma when he adopted all those women. And they were not in a position to keep a distance from him. Yeah. Nor, did they have nor was there someone else to protect them or if they there was such a person they were not powerful enough to defeat Robin.

Basically, Robin was the highest authority in the place where they were. They they were kidnapped and they were being held by him. So what what was their duty in in the face of such a betrayal? Yeah. You see that the other women were abducted by Rawan.

They didn’t they didn’t have any options. They didn’t have a protector of into Rawan. So what do you do? So broadly, in the world, when something bad happens, when bad things happen, we all become constricted in our options. It’s that okay.

Let me put it this way. This was going to be a topic of my future class tomorrow morning or evening class, but I’ll just mention it now. That when bad things happen, we basically when things happen that we three broad factors. There is God’s will, there is free will, and there is evil. So God’s will is supreme.

But is it that when Raman Abhutrasitaya was that Ram’s will? Well, you could say will lose sense of Ram’s nothing would happen without the sanction. But then God’s will is there and then there is free will. The people so free will means that everyone of us has been given neatly free. And based on our past karma, we are given a particular circle, a particular fear or sphere of influence.

The way we have 13 chapter call that So while we, by our past karma, have a particular. We can do whatever we want in that, and god doesn’t intervene. That’s why God is a but we are also Ishwar. So for example, if I get angry I might just yell at someone or somebody with a gun gets angry they might kill someone. If the president of America gets angry and just press some nuclear button then whole country might be destroyed.

So what will happen over here? The anger emotion is safe but different people have different and when a person by a particular by their karma has got a particular domain of influence then what they do within that domain is up to them. They may misuse it and evil here means that somebody can rapidly keeps evil the same as wickedness. Somebody keeps happily doing wrong and they just do it afterward. So what happens to those from this life’s perspective, we see that they are victims.

And if we can do something to rectify it, we can. But if we can’t, then we have to make we have to do the best with the situation that we are in. That means, say, for example, Hitler. He did a holocaust, and there’s so many Jews who were killed other than the concentration camps. Now some survived.

Some had written inspiring stories of how they survived and they we all within sometimes, we have very very little influence. When somebody some sometimes that other person’s becomes so big, our becomes almost negligible. So for Sita also like that for at least at 1 year she was helpless. So what does she do? She internally was remembering the Lord.

She was internally serving the Lord. Sometimes our outer Sita might just completely be a no sphere of influence left because somebody else is overpowering at that time. Then we had there are certain things you are just unavoidable in life. We just accept them and do the best within whatever we have over So there are many things in this life from this life’s perspective which are grievously wrong. Now we could expand the perspective to a previous life and talk about previous life’s karma.

But in general, when something is happening like this, from this life’s perspective, somebody is a victim, then we have to understand that they are we we have to also empathize with their victims. And everybody becomes a victim sometime or the other due to the course of life. So it’s just life is tough, and one reason why it’s tough is sometimes we are we are hurt, we are afflicted because of no apparent fault of ours. So we just have to make the best that we can. Sometimes externally, we can’t do anything.

We just have to internally try to grow if all that is there available for us. Okay. Yes. In a spiritual situation, you mentioned that one should not be immediately judgmental, but you also mentioned about, weakness and wickedness. Now, if I may ask you, what could be the, factors, that could make the situation wicked?

Situation or the person? Person. Okay. What could be the situation that could make a person wicked? In a spiritual situation.

In a spiritual situation. Okay. 2, 3 things, what I can what my observation or understanding whatever I’ve seen, that we all go through phases of karma. Sometimes desire overpowers us, And especially what happens in spiritual spiritual circle, there is often a voluntary offering of power to a personal authority. Like a disciple use the trust and lot of power to the spiritual master.

Devotees may give to their leaders who are the guys are there. And that if some if somebody who’s in a position of power, they go through a phase where they’re attacked by lust or anger or greed or whatever. These are terrible things. So to the extent we can have some checks and balances, that means one person has power, but no absolute power. It’s not that it’s not that we don’t consider the person trustworthy, but rather we understand that that everybody needs to be cautious.

The first kind of issue with Bhagavatam, the very revealing statement of Prabhupada for Shivadeva Swami. He says the liberated soul is always alert to avoid getting trapped by the illusory energy. When I read this, it’s starting. This one is already liberated. Why do they need to be alert?

They’re already liberated. But the idea is their liberation makes them aware of how they do the forces of illusion. And that’s why they stay alert. So liberation is not that you don’t you don’t see the force of illusion also. Rather, we are alert.

So in general, there has to be we have the system of Guru Sahastra. So we also need to have at a at a institutional or at a, at a social level, some checks and balances so that nobody has absolute power. That’s one thing. Because it just it just we don’t know what phases the mind the mind will go through and what will happen. That’s one thing.

Second thing is that it’s very easy especially in spiritual circles to become convinced that I am doing the work of God. That and it’s when somebody gets convinced that what I am doing is this is the will of God. This is the right thing to do. Then people can put all common civility, common morality, everything aside. But, you know, they just I’m justified to do this because I’m doing this.

This is some people claim it now. God told me in my heart of this. Okay. Okay. It may be, but it’s also that and it happened to Prabhupad.

And the one young life one life member, he came to Prabhupad and he said, momiji, Krishna came in my dream yesterday night. It’s alright. Serve him today. Serve him today. Okay.

So what after that? Even if Krishna comes in our dream, our eternal relationship with him is of service. So Krishna can come in some we’re not denying we cannot say that Krishna can’t come to have some paranormal needs. But that was paranormal means of Krishna’s, coming in our life don’t mean that we just abandon the normal means of serving. So, yes, so it’s sometimes it just happens that people this is right and whoever doesn’t accept this is wrong.

Even that happens, it’s it’s terrible. So we have to avoid that. It’s it’s a very it’s a very easy to acquire temptation. Easy to succumb to temptation once we start becoming a little more senior and become little more learned. Think I know.

There’s once a Catholic nun. She was she used to take care of more from girls. And an orphan girl would come just come to the TV. She asked, what are you going to do when you grow up? What are you planning to do?

She said the girl said, I want to become a prostitute. I mean, what? Holy Jesus. Girl, what did you say? I want to become a prostitute.

Oh, thank god. I thought you wanted to become a protester. So sometimes some we may consider doing somebody does something different from some sectarian devo do we divisions so bad that even sometimes we’re ethically objectionable. We think that this this is worse than that. So a sense of self righteousness can very easily warm our moral sense.

So we have to be cautious about that. Quite often, this is this is the reason why when devotees do something which is objectionable, that’s because this is what I meant to do. This is what is this is what God is willing. This is the right thing. So we have to be cautious about that ourselves.

Apart from that, we all have certain weaknesses, which that we can’t just wish away. See, so for some people, they might have anger and they start practicing Bhakti and their anger goes away. But we all have this we all may have the same conditioning, but the conditioning maybe having different depths in different or the different magnitude in different people. Or somebody chants and their anger goes away. Somebody practices Bhakti but their anger doesn’t go away.

That doesn’t mean they’re not practicing Bhakti sincerely. That doesn’t mean that they’re not advancing. But sometimes the anger might be very, very deep rooted in some. It might be huge conditioning. See, if I am here, you see, this is indulgence.

This is giving you to anger. This is giving you to lust talking into greed, and this is abstinence. And for somebody, it might just be smooth path because give it up and go here. For somebody else, it might be a huge mountain. And for them, if they get angry and for them, it is just it might be very, very difficult to control.

So we see this difference even now in Pandavas. Yudhishthir is quite pacific. Even in pro Yudhishthir stays calm. Sometimes it appears as if he’s looking for an opportunity to get provoked. He’s itching for a fight.

Now both of them are devotees but both of them have their personality. So, now, Bhima has you to to reign him, to control him. So, if we know that we or someone else has a particular weakness then we need to create the safeguards for ourselves. If I am vulnerable, if this condition is very deep within me, then better I don’t take a particular service. So if somebody has a tendency of, say, somebody has somebody has greed, and you make them the accountant of the project.

Well, it’s, it’s it’s sometimes just it’s because of certain conditionings. For some people, it is humanly not possible to resist. So if that is the case, then it is best not to put them to circumstances. And both that particular devotee as well as others, they need to recognize this. And they need to make some arrangement without without disgracing the devotee, without, without humiliating the devotee anyway.

It is an everybody has conditions. So sometimes some weaknesses can be overcome easily. Sometimes we may have to live with some weaknesses while we keep practicing. So that is the case. So so if if that weakness is there already and some temptation comes up, some situation comes up where it’s easy to indulge, then people may also be having wicked ways.

So Bhakti is complex. It’s not as, like, a simple formula. Do this, do this, and everything we do that. Each person is individual, and each of us has to find all the best way we can practice ourselves. Does that answer your question?

Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Yes. So talking about the investment Yeah. Invested in something, then the currency was greater.

Yeah. Mhmm. So in relationship, we will there’s only chance of getting hurt. So is it best to be emotionally invested in Krishna and not in any other relationships? The material world is a dangerous place, and there is no safe way, actually.

Every path is dangerous. So it’s, sometimes, traditionally warriors. Warriors who often get scars. Then they go well prepared, well trained, and they fight in a war, but they get scarred. And when they get scarred, at that time, it’s painful.

But for many warriors, those scars are like their ornaments. I fought so heroically. But just tell them that even physical scars, if you look at every person’s life at their level of the mind, everybody will have emotional scars, and we can’t avoid it. So when we are trying to serve Krishna, we need to see these emotional scars scars are, like, also like. We we don’t know nobody wants to get scared.

But if we don’t if we are not emotionally invested in others, then we can’t have we can’t have deep relationships. One of the main reasons why people come to spirituality is for a sense of community. I have a whole seminar on this topic. You know, broadly people come to spirituality from 4 ways. For social needs, for emotional needs, for intellectual needs, and for cultural or religious needs.

So a broad so broad large number of people come for social needs. And if they find that nobody cares for me over here, then what is the point of coming here? So we do need to connect with people. We don’t need to be we didn’t we do need to, to some extent, be emotionally invested in them. And it’s true that sometimes we will be disappointed.

We may even be betrayed. But it’s in perspective that we’re doing this for Krishna. And with some people, we’ll bond more closely. Some people will not bond that closely. That’s fine.

It’s just that the way human beings are. And, yes, what you’re saying is true that our we need to try to have the maximum emotional investment in Krishna. No doubt about it. But also says that in the neck of instruction that that the Krishna conscious movement is nourished by the 6 fold loving exchanges. So 6 fold loving exchanges are all all signs of our ways in which you can emotionally invest Especially and that the that that we do very commonly.

There’s no problem with that. Giving is very common. Giving gifts taking gifts is also okay if we do it periodically. But what we very less do is share our heart and let others hear let others share their heart. So I talk with some devotees who are in the mental health profession.

I mean, psych psychologist or something like that. They said that many many devotees, they actually feel the need to go to psychologists. Why? Because they feel if I open my heart to devotee, I’ll be judged. The psychologists will judge me.

So that is unfortunate. So we have to so we have to connect with people. But as you rightly said, we have to be cautious. So that means we can’t get too emotionally fixated on someone. And so there is I talk about few things.

There’s there is emotional, you could say, bankruptcy, emotional investment, and there is emotional fixation. Emotional background there is no emotion in the relationship. It’s like to be great people and you smile it’s like a secretary smile robotic. So people just don’t feel any correctly. But emotional attachment or emotional fixation is where we just can’t stop thinking of someone.

That where where thinking of that person becomes a fixation instead of instead of Krishna. So we will all have some stronger relationships and but if any particular relationship starts becoming so dominant that it starts coming in the way of our relationship with Krishna. So the emotional investment means it’s like if we make an investment then we can withdraw. It’s not easy to withdraw, but we can withdraw. As fixation means that investor, you just can’t take it out.

So we need to have that and this is this person is important. This person is important for me because he’s also part of Krishna. He’s coming closer to Krishna, and then we are bonded well. But if it doesn’t work, then I should be able to be true, And we have to connect with someone else. We need to see that it’s like, say, I am here.

Krishna is here. And Krishna can offer some love to me directly, and Krishna can sometimes accept my service directly also. But Krishna also offers me love to people around me and Krishna also accepts my service to people around me. So if we see only that person as a person giving us love or only that person as taking as we giving service to them, me serving them, and we don’t see Krishna. Then if that person stops being so loving, say, if it happens, it’s a senior for us.

They stop loving. And what happened? We feel empty. So we need to see that if they are loving us and we are grateful for them to be the instrument, but we see them as the instrument. It is Krishna who is offering his love to us to them.

And sometimes Krishna may decide that, okay, the love is not coming to this person. It may come to some other person. So emotional investment is wherever there is a wherever there’s opportunity for service, where there’s opportunity to have a loving relationship, we accept that. We honor that. But we don’t reduce our relationship, Krishna, only that channel.

That instrument. And similarly, when we are serving, we might spend a lot of time and energy in cultivating someone. And that person just goes away. Just goes away without any explanation and doesn’t answer of a moment. We feel we feel very betrayed.

So at that time, what do we do? We see that, you know, I did this I did this for this person. We also did this for Krishna. This person didn’t come, but what else is I done for Krishna Krishna. That is going to be that is going to be rewarded.

That is not gone waste. I once asked us in a Sanyasi preacher, a woman guru, a spiritual master that sometimes we are giving classes and the audience is just not interested. The audience is there just as a ritual, maybe they are looking at the watch, they are looking at the other. So then how do you enthuse yourself with that? So now you said that think that that class is a preparation for a future class when the audience is interested.

So if you see only this, you say, what have this event I’m here? If I see that I’m going to serve Krishna, okay, not here, but in the future. So let me do the best that I can hear. So so we have to find out some way to offer our best there, but at the same time do not get get caught over there. So if we have that vision, like we had room her as mother tells her that tells him that the love that we still can offer me offer you is more than 1,000,000 of mother like we can offer.

So she’s not denying her love. If if her love is simply Maya, it’s false. It’s 0. And millions of tangles 0 is also 0. So it’s not that her love is false, but he’s saying you can offer much more.

So I offered you as much love and shelter as I can, but in this situation I can’t. Please go to Mishnu. So like that, we need to have that vision. But we are going to relate with people as real people with real emotions and real individual personality and beliefs. But the same time, we also say that we are relating with Krishna through them.

Do you answer your question? Emotional investment. So detachment also in that you are saying. Yeah. Emotional investment with a bigger picture.

And this is I’m not just relating with this person, I’m relating with Krishna’s own spouse. So we if we so a tunnel vision means we see only that relationship and nothing else. We see this relationship and we see our relationship, Krishna. Then it won’t be then we will invest without getting without getting fixated. So okay.

It’s just on the question. You mentioned about, being cautious. Yeah. So when we start doing being cautious, are we saying are we bringing in the judgment? What what do we mean by cautious?

Okay. So when we are being cautious are we judging? There is a difference between discriminating. The word discrimination has a lot of negative connotation today not a racial discrimination, gender discrimination. So so but but, actually, the word has this has a non has functional meaning also.

I I write in the Gita every desire article about. There should be no discrimination against discrimination. The word word is a functional word. Discrimination is the capacity to discern, to analyze. So we need to discern.

It’s like when we put when we are going to say swim or take a bath in a river. We first put our toe in, we put our foot in, we see how cold it is. And then we gradually go in. So every relationship we have to take small small steps and then it’s just intelligence. So to say that so discriminating is or if you want to do this, discerning is essential.

Judging will be undesirable. Judging is again, judge if you want to put it further that even judging is also fine but being judgmental is not. Judging is more for the situation and how it affects us. Judgmental is we make a label for that. Yes.

Sometimes we ask some question to somebody and they give give an answer that just doesn’t make sense to us. And one of the most exasperating thing that as a as a devotee is we ask a practical question and we get a philosophical answer. So so if you find that somebody would do this, this doesn’t make sense the way they explain, then you say, okay, I may decide that, you know, this is not the person I should ask questions to. At least this kind of questions to. Somebody else will ask this kind of questions.

So we have to find out. So we it’s it’s not so much that we are judging that devotee, but we are evaluating or discerning the appropriate the utility or the particular is that one level discrimination. What is favorable for is unfavorable for that is integral to surrender. And we have to do that. So it’s easy to slide from there and say that, okay, to to label that devotee only particularly.

It doesn’t have to be like that. We can be respectful, wonderful devotee, but it doesn’t it doesn’t but you know, in the their way of presentation of questions and their way of practicing, their way of answering, it doesn’t gel with me. We we can have that level of individuality. So we do need to we do need to evaluate, we do need to discern. That kind of question is absolutely essential.

So thank you very much..